mchacker
Head Pro
Galaxy S4 + tripod + slowmo mode then import into V1 app, perfectly usable for the vast majority of amateur golfers. WRX and Sandtrap however will climb over their mothers to get what you talk of.
What camera to record golf swing
- Thread starter Lee Tracey
- Start date
Lee Tracey
Newbie
Hi mchacker:
If I read your posting correctly you totally disagree with bobmac for you reckon there is a golf market. I have a feeling that you could be right for out of a potential market of 30 million golfers there will be those with a negative attitude but on the simple law of averages there must also be potential customers - look at the SWINGSHOT as an example. I found a review and a blog that rated the Swingshot as a waste of space, but I also found professional golfers praising it. If my 300 IPS Global shutter camera at $540 could sell just 30,000 in a 30 million market then it would be a commercial success. If the major camera at 1.3 megapixel at 1000 IPS at $2,250 could sell just 5000 into the 35,000 golf club shops that also would be a commercial success.
I am at the moment a confused bunny but leaning towards the decision that the twin projects are worth a gamble. The real test will be can I attract any investors.
If I read your posting correctly you totally disagree with bobmac for you reckon there is a golf market. I have a feeling that you could be right for out of a potential market of 30 million golfers there will be those with a negative attitude but on the simple law of averages there must also be potential customers - look at the SWINGSHOT as an example. I found a review and a blog that rated the Swingshot as a waste of space, but I also found professional golfers praising it. If my 300 IPS Global shutter camera at $540 could sell just 30,000 in a 30 million market then it would be a commercial success. If the major camera at 1.3 megapixel at 1000 IPS at $2,250 could sell just 5000 into the 35,000 golf club shops that also would be a commercial success.
I am at the moment a confused bunny but leaning towards the decision that the twin projects are worth a gamble. The real test will be can I attract any investors.
the_coach
Journeyman Pro
just my take on it. reading between the lines, the people that first asked you about such a device were members at an upmarket club with a more than a few extra $'s in their hip pocket, but they were asking about some device to take with them to record swings during around which had an over large storage capacity plus viewing screen.
this to me would seem to be a request really based on a 'whim' & not really something that most golfers would use in that way at all to be entirely honest.
most serious golfers seems to me would look to have a real good quality device to record video at good speed rates to deliver at best high quality slow-mo that can link via bluetooth (not always wifi you can easily use around so you'd really need bt as well) to a larger tablet screen.
duration of video to store certainly would not need to be anywhere near 3 hours for sure, maybe a flash card slot of some kind would be useful but really your talking in terms of tens of minutes not hours.
folks would more want this kind of thing to work with either at home, on on the practice ground or driving range it would hardly ever get used out on the course save for the odd shot maybes.
so given the ever increasing development of quality of mobile phones & tablets could this 'new device' be at a price point that would be able to compete or have such killer applications that it could support the price mentioned to be able to sell in the volumes needed.
seems the other end of the professional level of the market, video for lessons, club fitting etc. already has quite a few alternatives out there for that market already, probably would be a case of can you provide the same high quality that the semi pro or pro market from Sony, Cannon etc provide already with 4k, super slowmo at price points from $3,000 upwards, could this $500 device provide the same quality pics to make it attractive to this entirely different market.
this to me would seem to be a request really based on a 'whim' & not really something that most golfers would use in that way at all to be entirely honest.
most serious golfers seems to me would look to have a real good quality device to record video at good speed rates to deliver at best high quality slow-mo that can link via bluetooth (not always wifi you can easily use around so you'd really need bt as well) to a larger tablet screen.
duration of video to store certainly would not need to be anywhere near 3 hours for sure, maybe a flash card slot of some kind would be useful but really your talking in terms of tens of minutes not hours.
folks would more want this kind of thing to work with either at home, on on the practice ground or driving range it would hardly ever get used out on the course save for the odd shot maybes.
so given the ever increasing development of quality of mobile phones & tablets could this 'new device' be at a price point that would be able to compete or have such killer applications that it could support the price mentioned to be able to sell in the volumes needed.
seems the other end of the professional level of the market, video for lessons, club fitting etc. already has quite a few alternatives out there for that market already, probably would be a case of can you provide the same high quality that the semi pro or pro market from Sony, Cannon etc provide already with 4k, super slowmo at price points from $3,000 upwards, could this $500 device provide the same quality pics to make it attractive to this entirely different market.
Lee Tracey
Newbie
Many thanks to "the_coach":
You are right that the original golfers who approached me were in the Rolls world of players and did not have any problems with what anything cost. They did however make it clear that such a camera could only be for the practice area and never out on the course; my not being a golfer perhaps failed to make that known aspect clear in my postings. They already had cameras and mobile that could do a fairly good job but the reasons they gave me for wanting a SPECIFIC GOLFCAM were:
1. The problem that they needed a second person to operate the GoPro or other Casio. I responded to one fiery Lady that she could get her husband to operate the camera - her reply was scathing:- " ...you idiot, one of the pleasures of playing golf is to get away from the old fool.."
2. All the cameras available to them had the sensor orientation landscape, the GOLFCAM should be portrait.
3. We need a simple remote control to switch the camera ON just before we swing and then OFF as soon as we complete, and the storage to be in a numbered segment. If we use one of the domestic cameras we have to fix it onto something and then set it recording and then walk to where we are going to hit the ball. Afterwards we have to search through a load of useless footage to find the odd second of the swing.
4. We need a simple mechanism to attach the camera to the golf cart or the golf trolley or a tripod and allow PT adjustment.
5. We need a built-in screen of about 7 inches so that we can check the recording immediately after the swing.
6. We would like WiFi.
7. The LCD screen should not be on the top or the rear but on the side so that the lens was on the edge - with the lens pointing in the direction we want ten we can easily see the screen on the side while the cart fixing mechanism is on the rear edge.
8. There should be only one mechanical control to provide ON/OFF apart from the remote. All other controls should be touchscreen. This would allow the unit to be totally weatherproof. The mechanical switch could be magnetic so no opening needed in the casing.
9. The recording speed should be at least 300 IPS.
10. We have been told about GLOBAL shutters being vastly better than the rolling shutters in all the domestic cameras so we want a GLOBAL shutter.
11. The camera should provide a light source to compensate for dark cloud days and to light the shadows in bright sunlight.
12. If you can put such a camera on the market for about £540 we will buy it, and probably many more as presents for our families and friends.
13. Prove to us that you can do it and you set up a clean new start-up company with no baggage history then we will buy some shares and also introduce you to Venture Capital sources.
My original mistake was to think that all golfers were filthy rich but after some research on the golf forums I discovered that I had been talking to only about 3% of the golfing community and that to many the price of £540 ( $810 ) was a serious NO-NO. But my question is that out of the 30 million golfers in the world are there enough YES-YES golfers to make the project viable?
In regard to the very high speed camera I am getting a stronger positive feedback. None of the very high speed at high resolution cameras I can find on the market are capable of being used as a self contained battery operated mobile camera. For indoor use where mains power is available and the camera can buffer via DDR3 or similar and output via USB3 or similar to a massively powerful server/storage PC then a resolution of 4K is viable.
My maths tells me that the maximum we can achieve for a fully self contained mobile camera is 1.3 megapixels and 1000 images per second. The raw output of this camera would be 0.4 second per GB. A buffer and solid state memory of 128 GB would give 51.2 seconds for the 128 GB, From this point on we would have to introduce a compression algorithm and the best we can get is H.265. A safe, and considered lossless ratio is 6:1. This would increase our storage time to 5 minutes.
We could take the ratio up to 60:1 but the results would not be equal to 1.3 megapixel. So one can see how the 4K camera can never make it outside unless it is of the size and cost of a top broadcast camera.
All so confusing for a simple old country boy!
You are right that the original golfers who approached me were in the Rolls world of players and did not have any problems with what anything cost. They did however make it clear that such a camera could only be for the practice area and never out on the course; my not being a golfer perhaps failed to make that known aspect clear in my postings. They already had cameras and mobile that could do a fairly good job but the reasons they gave me for wanting a SPECIFIC GOLFCAM were:
1. The problem that they needed a second person to operate the GoPro or other Casio. I responded to one fiery Lady that she could get her husband to operate the camera - her reply was scathing:- " ...you idiot, one of the pleasures of playing golf is to get away from the old fool.."
2. All the cameras available to them had the sensor orientation landscape, the GOLFCAM should be portrait.
3. We need a simple remote control to switch the camera ON just before we swing and then OFF as soon as we complete, and the storage to be in a numbered segment. If we use one of the domestic cameras we have to fix it onto something and then set it recording and then walk to where we are going to hit the ball. Afterwards we have to search through a load of useless footage to find the odd second of the swing.
4. We need a simple mechanism to attach the camera to the golf cart or the golf trolley or a tripod and allow PT adjustment.
5. We need a built-in screen of about 7 inches so that we can check the recording immediately after the swing.
6. We would like WiFi.
7. The LCD screen should not be on the top or the rear but on the side so that the lens was on the edge - with the lens pointing in the direction we want ten we can easily see the screen on the side while the cart fixing mechanism is on the rear edge.
8. There should be only one mechanical control to provide ON/OFF apart from the remote. All other controls should be touchscreen. This would allow the unit to be totally weatherproof. The mechanical switch could be magnetic so no opening needed in the casing.
9. The recording speed should be at least 300 IPS.
10. We have been told about GLOBAL shutters being vastly better than the rolling shutters in all the domestic cameras so we want a GLOBAL shutter.
11. The camera should provide a light source to compensate for dark cloud days and to light the shadows in bright sunlight.
12. If you can put such a camera on the market for about £540 we will buy it, and probably many more as presents for our families and friends.
13. Prove to us that you can do it and you set up a clean new start-up company with no baggage history then we will buy some shares and also introduce you to Venture Capital sources.
My original mistake was to think that all golfers were filthy rich but after some research on the golf forums I discovered that I had been talking to only about 3% of the golfing community and that to many the price of £540 ( $810 ) was a serious NO-NO. But my question is that out of the 30 million golfers in the world are there enough YES-YES golfers to make the project viable?
In regard to the very high speed camera I am getting a stronger positive feedback. None of the very high speed at high resolution cameras I can find on the market are capable of being used as a self contained battery operated mobile camera. For indoor use where mains power is available and the camera can buffer via DDR3 or similar and output via USB3 or similar to a massively powerful server/storage PC then a resolution of 4K is viable.
My maths tells me that the maximum we can achieve for a fully self contained mobile camera is 1.3 megapixels and 1000 images per second. The raw output of this camera would be 0.4 second per GB. A buffer and solid state memory of 128 GB would give 51.2 seconds for the 128 GB, From this point on we would have to introduce a compression algorithm and the best we can get is H.265. A safe, and considered lossless ratio is 6:1. This would increase our storage time to 5 minutes.
We could take the ratio up to 60:1 but the results would not be equal to 1.3 megapixel. So one can see how the 4K camera can never make it outside unless it is of the size and cost of a top broadcast camera.
All so confusing for a simple old country boy!
