Well said Andrew Neil

[Deleted member 16999]

That was a very rude reply to a thoughtful post.
A post that many right wing politicians agree with.

The UK foreign/defence policy has been in a right mucking fuddle in the last two decades.
We are a small nation on the edge of the world not the police force at the centre of it.

Why if we say bomb somebody is it right wing, are communists or left wing people not allowed that view, judging his political views on his post, you're just as guilty and you're stating fact, that no one disagrees with, but no comment on how you propose to deal with IS

 

[Tashyboy]

An excellent speech and well done for posting!
Sadly, I have to say that those who think this problem can be solved by leaving the IS problem to others are being idealistic and deluding themselves. Yes, I agree that some of the problems we face today in the Middle East are of the Wests making and typically caused by having George W Bush and Tony Blair in power at the same time. A true disaster for our world. However, whilst conflicts like the second Gulf war was unneccesary and misguided, solving the IS problem is not. This is not a Middle East problem. It is everyone's problem and if you don't believe that, then just look where last Friday's tragedy took place. If we don't take the fight to IS, they will bring it to us and are doing so already.
This is actually little to do with religion. We have to accept that some people will turn to evil given any excuse and this is an excuse. This is a good versus evil struggle and it is a duty of every country, every government of decent people to defeat evil where it raises it's ugly head. As they say, evil only succeeds when good men do nothing.
Its time to stop this half hearted attempt at irradication of IS. Stop tying one arm behind our own back. It's laughable that we only air strike in Iraq when IS is mainly in Syria.
In the last gulf war, There were no weapons of mass destruction, but this time there is a real threat and we have to deal with it, if only to protect our own citizens.

Well written sweep.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Why if we say bomb somebody is it right wing, are communists or left wing people not allowed that view, judging his political views on his post, you're just as guilty and you're stating fact, that no one disagrees with, but no comment on how you propose to deal with IS

If you and Hobbit had actually read Ethan's post you will have seen that he made it quite clear how to deal with IS. I fail to see how you could then say he had no alternative.
I agree with his thoughts.
After 20 years of getting it wrong we need to try a different strategy.

 

[williamalex1]

Looks like the UN has made the decision to sanction action against IS .

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you and Hobbit had actually read Ethan's post you will have seen that he made it quite clear how to deal with IS. I fail to see how you could then say he had no alternative.
I agree with his thoughts.
After 20 years of getting it wrong we need to try a different strategy.

No he didn't make it clear how to deal with it, 3 history lessons finished with oops, then says we should left middle east problems to middle east countries, too late, that horse is bolted, let's say the west pulls out tomorrow, are you saying the middle east countries will step up and IS will give up?
Totally agree the Middle East countries should be more involved, but wasn't the first Gulf War started by one Middle East country invading another.

 

[sawtooth]

Well said , and bravely said.

 

[Hobbit]

No idea but fortunately I don't give a toss. Please feel free to show your disapproval with a dignified silence from now on.

Hopefully some others capable of actually thinking about things might read the post though and engage in intelligent debate.

You do great with many of your replies till you throw in the arrogant insults. I don't see it as an X-box game, I'm not that childish, but nor do I see it wise giving cuddly, yoghurt knitting solutions either... "walk softly but carry a big stick."

Leave the patronising facetious replies out of it and you might get the dignified debate you crave.

 

[chippa1909]

Who is helping finance ISIS by buying their oil cheap?


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-19/most-important-question-about-isis-nobody-asking

 

[Tashyboy]

Who is helping finance ISIS by buying their oil cheap?


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-19/most-important-question-about-isis-nobody-asking

Well found chippa, if the US know who is buying the oil, why have they not done anything about it.

 

[bladeplayer]

An excellent speech and well done for posting!
Sadly, I have to say that those who think this problem can be solved by leaving the IS problem to others are being idealistic and deluding themselves. Yes, I agree that some of the problems we face today in the Middle East are of the Wests making and typically caused by having George W Bush and Tony Blair in power at the same time. A true disaster for our world. However, whilst conflicts like the second Gulf war was unneccesary and misguided, solving the IS problem is not. This is not a Middle East problem. It is everyone's problem and if you don't believe that, then just look where last Friday's tragedy took place. If we don't take the fight to IS, they will bring it to us and are doing so already.
This is actually little to do with religion. We have to accept that some people will turn to evil given any excuse and this is an excuse. This is a good versus evil struggle and it is a duty of every country, every government of decent people to defeat evil where it raises it's ugly head. As they say, evil only succeeds when good men do nothing.
Its time to stop this half hearted attempt at irradication of IS. Stop tying one arm behind our own back. It's laughable that we only air strike in Iraq when IS is mainly in Syria.
In the last gulf war, There were no weapons of mass destruction, but this time there is a real threat and we have to deal with it, if only to protect our own citizens.

Great post this ..

Im possibly gona upset a few now , not my intention ..

WMD were possibly a myth maybe there were some , I don't know .

IS are very real , whether people like it or believe it they are fighting for & defending what they believe , misguided or not someone who is willing to die for what they believe is a dangerous foe ..


Two options for the west for me now .
They can stop upsetting the bad people & hopefully they will go away eventually and stop bombing & shooting the innocents of allied countries & go back to their original battles .. slaughtering & killing people on the news, not our streets .. distance is a numbing agent

They now can with the backing of the western world align with their allies and go and destroy these people , & I don't just mean in Syria with guns , they gota deal with the enemy within ,
Political correctness has gone to far , we must not swing the full pendulum the opposite way & do a Guantanamo bay on it but time for the people who don't want live by the rules to upsticks & away with ya or face the consequences ..

I don't have any answers , but all the speaches in the world mean nothing unless its backed up

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Great post this ..

Im possibly gona upset a few now , not my intention ..

WMD were possibly a myth maybe there were some , I don't know .

IS are very real , whether people like it or believe it they are fighting for & defending what they believe , misguided or not someone who is willing to die for what they believe is a dangerous foe ..


Two options for the west for me now .
They can stop upsetting the bad people & hopefully they will go away eventually and stop bombing & shooting the innocents of allied countries & go back to their original battles .. slaughtering & killing people on the news, not our streets .. distance is a numbing agent

They now can with the backing of the western world align with their allies and go and destroy these people , & I don't just mean in Syria with guns , they gota deal with the enemy within ,
Political correctness has gone to far , we must not swing the full pendulum the opposite way & do a Guantanamo bay on it but time for the people who don't want live by the rules to upsticks & away with ya or face the consequences ..

I don't have any answers , but all the speaches in the world mean nothing unless its backed up

Good post, no easy solution, but doing nothing and putting on blinkers is definitely not the answer.

 

[delc]

IS's treatment of Christian and Shia Muslim minorities in their own patch has been pretty dreadful. Perhaps we should remind them that there are significant numbers of Sunni Muslims living in Western Countries. Racial and religious tolerance is an important part of modern society and IS should drag itself out of the Dark Ages. Then there would no need to go to war with them.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree with what he said but making these statements across world media isn't the way forward. We are going to struggle to eradicate IS across the globe and while I can see the rationale behind the bombing that is going on, events in Paris and Mali and no doubt elsewhere in the months to come, shows they have a worldwide network of followers prepared to die for the cause. How do you target and eradicate these when you have no idea where the next attack is coming from

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In recent years Boko Haram have murdered many more innocent victims than IS.

As most of their targets are outside Europe does that make them less responsible for worldwide terrorism?
Is an African life worth less than a European one?
Do the UN treat Boko Haram as a lesser evil than IS?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree with what he said but making these statements across world media isn't the way forward. We are going to struggle to eradicate IS across the globe and while I can see the rationale behind the bombing that is going on, events in Paris and Mali and no doubt elsewhere in the months to come, shows they have a worldwide network of followers prepared to die for the cause. How do you target and eradicate these when you have no idea where the next attack is coming from

What's is the way forward?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In recent years Boko Haram have murdered many more innocent victims than IS.

As most of their targets are outside Europe does that make them less responsible for worldwide terrorism?
Is an African life worth less than a European one?
Do the UN treat Boko Haram as a lesser evil than IS?

Didn't realise it was a competition to see who was most evil and whose lives are effected more.

I expect if people of Nigeria requested help from UN then they would do something

If Boko Haram expanded beyond their own borders then the country they attacked would look to UN to sanction action

 

[Deleted member 16999]

In recent years Boko Haram have murdered many more innocent victims than IS.

As most of their targets are outside Europe does that make them less responsible for worldwide terrorism?
Is an African life worth less than a European one?
Do the UN treat Boko Haram as a lesser evil than IS?

Western Nations are fighting Boko Haram alongside African Nations, Every life is equal.

 

[Sweep]

In recent years Boko Haram have murdered many more innocent victims than IS.

As most of their targets are outside Europe does that make them less responsible for worldwide terrorism?
Is an African life worth less than a European one?
Do the UN treat Boko Haram as a lesser evil than IS?

As I understand it Boko Haram have sworn allegiance to IS. If so, it's a single problem and should be treated as such.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As previously mentioned I've been in the Forces over 35 years and have seen/heard/aware of some horrible things, Totally agree Military Action should be a very last resort, also agree with Ethan and others we have blundered in to conflicts with no exit strategy or post war plan. But and it's a mighty but, to me there are instances in history were you are left with no choice, you have to go on the offensive and take action, IS is like nothing we've ever seen, they see it as their job to eradicate westerners, there's no sitting round a table and talking peace, they're not interested,
We must keep up the pressure and get other Arab/Muslim Nations involved, strangle their logistic tail and finish them off.
The only down side to what Andrew Neil said is that it was him and not a World Leader. Everyday Muslims are against IS and what they stand for, we should stand with them and work from both sides, Hobbit put it well, tread softly and carry a big stick.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Didn't realise it was a competition to see who was most evil and whose lives are effected more.

I expect if people of Nigeria requested help from UN then they would do something

If Boko Haram expanded beyond their own borders then the country they attacked would look to UN to sanction action

What border would that be?