Wedge groove rule changes

[haplesshacker]

Been reading another golf mag (sorry Mike!), but I have a little time on my hands at the moment.

Fascinating articule on spin and wedges. But what really got my interest is the rule change on all clubs manufactured after 1-1-2010, ie. next year.

If the rule is designed to create less spin on wedge shots, then are we going to stash a few of the current wedges for future use as we're allowed to use them until 2024?

What are your thoughts. Can't wait for the new less spin wedges, or stash a few of the high spinning wedges for when you want to replace the ones in the bag at the moment?

Or are the ball manufactuers going to get round this with balls with even softer covers?

 

[Twire]

I'd like to answer your post Hapless.......but what is the new rule?

 

[haplesshacker]

I think the new rules effectively limit the current 'U' shaped grooves with almost 90 degree edges. To 'V' shaped grooves. This means less 'bite' on the ball.

The articule makes some interesting comparisons between a wedge from the early '70's (unused), and a modern wedge. The idea being that the '70's wedge is more like what we'd expect to see next year.

 

[Twire]

Ahhhh, I see, so the 3 new wedges I've just purchased will be ilegal in 2024

With all these groove sharpening files and broaches on the market now, the people that use them won't have conforming grooves anyway.......but will anyone check? I can just see me on the first tee before a medal asking my opponent if I can measure his grooves to see if they conform.

 

[USER1999]

To be honest, I don't think it will affect us that much. For me, I have moved away from Spin milled wedges, as I find the spin uncontrolable (it is there, or not, or some, who knows), and have gone to a less agressive wedge anyway, which for me, gives more consistent results.

For those who like spin milled (macdaddyzip, whatever) grooves, do they really make a difference to us?

Off the fairway, there will still be plenty of spin available, as the grooves are only really there to chanel debris away from the face, and allow the ball to contact the metal. Off the fairway or fringe, the volume of debris is less.

Out of the rough (the reason for the rule change), how many of us hackers get any spin at all? You need such good technique to get this control, that most of us don't have it.

I would think that by the time you replace your current wedge, because the face is worn, you will be quite happy with whatever new ones are available.

 

[USER1999]

Watching the Dubai desert classic, I saw Casey pitch 20 yards out of 6" deep rough, the ball hit the green, and span back about 6 foot. This is the sort of control they want to get rid of, and for me, I think it is the right move. Too long have pro's been able to bomb it off the tee, with no advantage to being on the short stuff. If they want to go for the green on a par 4 from the tee, if they miss the green, there should be a penalty, ie: not being able to just throw it at the pin with a bit of check.

 

[medwayjon]

Watching the Dubai desert classic, I saw Casey pitch 20 yards out of 6" deep rough, the ball hit the green, and span back about 6 foot. This is the sort of control they want to get rid of, and for me, I think it is the right move. Too long have pro's been able to bomb it off the tee, with no advantage to being on the short stuff. If they want to go for the green on a par 4 from the tee, if they miss the green, there should be a penalty, ie: not being able to just throw it at the pin with a bit of check.

100% Agreed on this chris, a poor shot should be penalised and if technology prevents this, it makes an arse of the "elite" game to an extent.

 

[haplesshacker]

I'm not disagreeing with the reasons for the rule change for the top players. But the legalality of us being able to use high spin wedges until 2024, kind of proves that the rule makers don't think it's a major problem for club level players.

Why then at the same time don't they limit driver and ball technology for the top players as well? Hell, why not ban anything pre 1960's or 1900's, or even pre 1500's! Oh didn't they play golf back then. Ah well, ban golf then!!

Just playing devils advocate!!

 

[haplesshacker]

I can't believe I said 'ban golf' on a golf forum run by a golf mag

 

[medwayjon]

Notice I said the elite game, not referring to club golfers.

 

[USER1999]

I don't believe that club golfers technique is good enough to really benefit from the grooves the way some pro's do, so the ban won't effect club golfers. Not every one wants big grooves anyway, as is evidenced by Vokey continuing to sell the 200 range for so long.

You can't have a pro ball, or pro driver, as the whole ethos of the game is one set of rules for all. That is what makes golf great.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I read the same article and I tend to agree that whilst it makes perfect sense to actually make the pros work harder out of bad lies by changing the grooves, for the lesser golfing mortals such as myself it will be business as usual.

I have the Z TP wedges from TM and I bought those mainly because the shape and weight of the club met exactly what I was looking for, not just because of the aggressive grooves. I find the Z grooves have helped my game especially on bunker and pitch shots but to be honest, my short game technique is shot anyway so I could probably get similar results with a coal scuttle. I agree that Vokey and others will steal a march as they have been churning out "normal" grooves but as the changes won't impact club players for many years most will have already changed to a conforming wedge configuration (probably several times) before the deadline

 

[theeaglehunter]

Out of the rough (the reason for the rule change), how many of us hackers get any spin at all?You need such good technique to get this control, that most of us don't have it.

Watching the Dubai desert classic, I saw Casey pitch 20 yards out of 6" deep rough, the ball hit the green, and span back about 6 foot. This is the sort of control they want to get rid of, and for me, I think it is the right move. Too long have pro's been able to bomb it off the tee, with no advantage to being on the short stuff. If they want to go for the green on a par 4 from the tee, if they miss the green, there should be a penalty, ie: not being able to just throw it at the pin with a bit of check.

In order to play the devils advocate, do these two posts not culminate in saying we are punishing players for having "such a good technique" and being able to make use of such technology? (Which like you said us hackers can't anyway).

It is why they are pros and we aren't. I personally would not take pleasure from taking it to an extreme where a pro gets the same level of control as me from the rough despite a superior technique. As whilst it may make it seem great when they manufacture different shots to make up for this I would rather see the flashy shots only the pros can do such as getting back spin from impossible positions. They still have to control the spin they generate and in many cases (when playing from the fairway) the spin can hurt a player taking it away from the hole. What difference will there be if they have to control the ball by pitching it short from the rough and running it in or having to expertly judge the spin to be able to throw it at the hole? A shot that also potentially carries more risk as if the ball and club don't make the correct contact there could be no spin and the ball could end up through the green resulting in more drama / viewer excitement.

I know it is too late as it has been past but I see little need for a change back to the way things were. It may be worth limiting/ outlawing any future developments but reverting to previous technology seems silly to me.

I may be on my own here though, it's just my opinion!

 

[haplesshacker]

Lets face it. Regardless of equipment rules, Pros will always play better than us mere mortals. It is after all what makes them pros.

I understand the reasoning behind the new rules. But a backward step is a backward step.

I wonder if we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about in a few years time. I suspect that the pros will be spinning the balls equally as much as face materials and ball materials are explored. Despite the groove ruling.

 

[USER1999]

If the grooves can't clear the grass out of the way (a volume thing), then the face of the club won't connect with the ball. It doesn't matter what ball they come up with, or what face they come up with, they won't meet, result, no spin.
I for one, am looking forward to it. I want to see fairways hit, and rewards for doing it. Otherwise we are going to see longer and longer courses, and many of the classic courses abandoned due to lack of length.

There has to be more to golf than bombing it of the tee.

 

[Imurg]

It will make a difference to the pros until they adapt - which wont take long.

We wont notice a thing. You could stock up on Vokey Spin Milled wedges now but by this time next year all new wedges will be of the new groove variety. There will be pre-change wedges around for some years but all new ones made after 1st jan 2010 must be of the new type.

We will have until "at least" 2024. AT LEAST - maybe more. Most of us wil have changed our wedges 4 or 5 times by then.

Stocking up may not be a good idea. Technology, even in wedges, moves on swiftly and your bang up to date wedge now will be positively Medieval in 10 years time.

 

[haplesshacker]

If the grooves can't clear the grass out of the way (a volume thing), then the face of the club won't connect with the ball. It doesn't matter what ball they come up with, or what face they come up with, they won't meet, result, no spin.
I for one, am looking forward to it. I want to see fairways hit, and rewards for doing it. Otherwise we are going to see longer and longer courses, and many of the classic courses abandoned due to lack of length.

There has to be more to golf than bombing it of the tee.

So by reducing the 'grip' that pros get from the rough, they'll be forced into hitting more fairways, which should probably mean that they drive for accuracy and not for length. Got it.

However isn't that going to make viewing just as interesting as it is now? I can see though that the not so big hitters on the tour (Luke Donald for example) will start to rank higher as their iron play will need to be exemplarly (sp), and not just relying on distance off the tee.

 

[USER1999]

But the main thing is to keep existing courses on the tour schedule, and not just keep edging out to 8000 yards. A lot of classic courses don't have the space or money to continually lengthen, and it would be a shame to see some of them dropped, or brought to their knees.

 

[andiritchie]

I think its a good idea the pros are just used to flying it to the pin out of the rough because they can,maybe it is easier for them to play but they all can land it shorter ang jog it to the hole.

When watching pro golf on tv they always taking spin off shots,so maybe too much spin is a problem sometimes,they will adjust to the new grooves and it wont make a difference to us,not many of us can hit them spinny pitches

If you hit the ball first with any old grooves it will stop soon enough

 

[SammmeBee]

But the main thing is to keep existing courses on the tour schedule, and not just keep edging out to 8000 yards. A lot of classic courses don't have the space or money to continually lengthen, and it would be a shame to see some of them dropped, or brought to their knees.

They will keep the existing courses if they keep stumping up the cash for the Tour - all this 7500, 7600, 7700 yards is a nonsense anyway as they normally move the tees up to around 7000, or less if the conditions are 'too tough' and would make our boys look like normal golfers....they do it at the US Open most years and everyone complains that 'it's too hard'.....all people want to see on the telly is 300+ yards drives and scores of 20 under winning tournaments......isn't it.....