VAR

[Orikoru]

Just scrap the bloody thing altogether.
Take the rough with the smooth and be done with it, it's part and parcel of the game.
Remember football is a game of emotions. For many their entire week revolves around it. The last minute winner is a thing of joy. The thing that makes you savour the post match beer that much more. Sadly you now have to put on hold that magical moment you hug a complete stranger until computer says yes. The sterile operating room environment of VAR has now stripped that joy away....

Take away the emotion and you take away the game.

Wishful thinking - I think that now it's here it will never go away. We just have to hope that over time its use becomes more streamlined.

 

[English golfer in Spain]

Have stated for years that bringing in video replay for football will ruin it and imo that’s what is happening

Yes we moan about decisions etc etc but that’s all part of the game , it’s been happening for decades and it won’t stop.

Goal line technology was superb but VAR is ruining the flow and the natural way the game is.

Unfortunately it’s here now and poor refs are going to continue use is as a crutch.

And also the rule changes are just as poor

Yep, agree with this. But couldn't we set a number of times a team (the captain) can use it, say once per half.
In cricket they get two reviews when bowling and another two when batting. In tennis they get 3 per set, plus another for a tie break. The are not going to waste their review on a throw on the half way line, they will only use it for real cock-ups by the officials. once you used it, that's it!

I have been on about "Sin bins" in football for over 50 years, and I see that they are trying them out in the lower leagues, step 5 or 7 i think? these are being used for foul and abusive language to the officials, and i believe silly fouls, but not dangerous fouls where the red card is still being used. Its a bit like rugby, 10 minutes, and then that's it back onto the pitch. That means that the team benefitting are the team that has been wronged, and not some other team 3 months down the road, who no nothing about why such a player is not playing today.
The king of missing games after picking up 5 yellow cards was John Terry of Chelsea, the amount of times I heard, normally in the final 5 minutes of the game was, That's John Terry's 5th yellow card this season, he will miss Tuesday's night League Cup tie against Peterborough.

 

[Orikoru]

Yep, agree with this. But couldn't we set a number of times a team (the captain) can use it, say once per half.
In cricket they get two reviews when bowling and another two when batting. In tennis they get 3 per set, plus another for a tie break. The are not going to waste their review on a throw on the half way line, they will only use it for real cock-ups by the officials. once you used it, that's it!

I have been on about "Sin bins" in football for over 50 years, and I see that they are trying them out in the lower leagues, step 5 or 7 i think? these are being used for foul and abusive language to the officials, and i believe silly fouls, but not dangerous fouls where the red card is still being used. Its a bit like rugby, 10 minutes, and then that's it back onto the pitch. That means that the team benefitting are the team that has been wronged, and not some other team 3 months down the road, who no nothing about why such a player is not playing today.
The king of missing games after picking up 5 yellow cards was John Terry of Chelsea, the amount of times I heard, normally in the final 5 minutes of the game was, That's John Terry's 5th yellow card this season, he will miss Tuesday's night League Cup tie against Peterborough.

I think that's a terrible idea. You'd be turning it into a bit of a gimmick. What if there are two awful decisions in a half? If teams haven't used theirs, wouldn't they then turn it into a time-wasting measure at the end of the game? There are a lot better ways to use VAR than that I think. It should never be in the hands of the players to use or not use it. It is supposed to exist to help the officials, not help the teams gain advantage from it.

The sinbin at non-league level is for dissent to the referee only. No fouls at all.

 

[English golfer in Spain]

But the players have the review in Tennis and Cricket and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

Women's World Cup match England V Cameroon, I believe there was more than 12 checks for VAR in the game, and the second half lasted over 60 minutes. Get used to 3.00pm games finishing after 5.00pm

As for time wasting, 3 substitutions in injury time? what's that all about? I have probably been to and watched more than 2000 live games, and the whole game is falling apart. Do you know that the actual playing time in football is well less than 60 minutes,
and has been for over 20 years.

 

[Orikoru]

But the players have the review in Tennis and Cricket and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

Women's World Cup match England V Cameroon, I believe there was more than 12 checks for VAR in the game, and the second half lasted over 60 minutes. Get used to 3.00pm games finishing after 5.00pm

As for time wasting, 3 substitutions in injury time? what's that all about? I have probably been to and watched more than 2000 live games, and the whole game is falling apart. Do you know that the actual playing time in football is well less than 60 minutes,
and has been for over 20 years.

They're completely different sports. Hardly worth comparing. As I keep saying, they haven't got it right yet for football, but it will just take a bit of time and patience I feel. This is still a relatively new concept, I doubt anyone expected them to nail it straight away.

The game is falling apart? Try telling that to agents, chairmen and Sky Sports directors. Your '..and has been for over 20 years' at the end sort of weakens the argument a bit don't you think? Can hardly be relevant to a discussion about VAR in that case?

 

[English golfer in Spain]

I don't understand your comment about completely different sports? In Tennis cricket and football surely the player (Captain) is asking the official to check his or assistants call, whether its a umpire, line judge or a linesman, ( you can see I am still old school)
the sport doesn't matter what it is! so long that we get the correct decision. All I am saying is that to keep stopping the game for a VAR decision is another way of killing time. If the team waste their reviews (I say one per half) then that's their fault.

Ashes series, 2nd test 4th day, the Aussie's didn't review two decisions, one was for Ben Stokes, that if they had would have meant that they would have probably won the second test. But they reviewed two decision on day five, and both were clear to be seen poor decision by the captain. Yes bring in VAR, but its got to be controlled in the right way.

 

[Fade and Die]

Wishful thinking - I think that now it's here it will never go away. We just have to hope that over time its use becomes more streamlined.

I think your right, it will not go away, and i also agree with all the reasons for having it! Correct decisions, stop cheating and diving, address the problem of poor referees and home bias. Its just that the price for all of that is too much. The game is being fundamentally changed as a live spectacle.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't understand your comment about completely different sports? In Tennis cricket and football surely the player (Captain) is asking the official to check his or assistants call, whether its a umpire, line judge or a linesman, ( you can see I am still old school)
the sport doesn't matter what it is! so long that we get the correct decision. All I am saying is that to keep stopping the game for a VAR decision is another way of killing time. If the team waste their reviews (I say one per half) then that's their fault.

Ashes series, 2nd test 4th day, the Aussie's didn't review two decisions, one was for Ben Stokes, that if they had would have meant that they would have probably won the second test. But they reviewed two decision on day five, and both were clear to be seen poor decision by the captain. Yes bring in VAR, but its got to be controlled in the right way.

I mean cricket is the slowest sport on earth and takes about 13 days to get through one game, so no one is going to complain about it slowing the game down like they are with football, for a start. It's apples and oranges.

Your second point is exactly what I'm taking about though. You leave it in the hands of the players and still the wrong decisions are getting made. It is there to assist the officials in getting ALL or at least as many as possible of the decisions correct. Not just a limited number of decisions at the whim of the teams.

 

[howbow88]

Have stated for years that bringing in video replay for football will ruin it and imo that’s what is happening

Yes we moan about decisions etc etc but that’s all part of the game , it’s been happening for decades and it won’t stop.

Goal line technology was superb but VAR is ruining the flow and the natural way the game is.

Unfortunately it’s here now and poor refs are going to continue use is as a crutch.

And also the rule changes are just as poor

Agree with every word.

My biggest concern, and the Wolves manager hinted at this the other day, is how it will affect the feeling of scoring a goal. Up until the end of last season, when my team scored I went mental. It was a purely spontaneous experience. A goal was a goal and they were virtually never chalked off. Even if they were, it was usually a second or two after the ball hit the net.

Once your team gets a couple of goals disallowed through VAR, your mind will learn that a goal now means that its it's probably goal, but it may well not be too... Your feelings will never be the same, never as passionate and crazy, and I find that an awful thought.

Still, my team have managed to not score at all this season, so maybe if we carry that on I won't need to be concerned

 

[howbow88]

I think your right, it will not go away, and i also agree with all the reasons for having it! Correct decisions, stop cheating and diving, address the problem of poor referees and home bias. Its just that the price for all of that is too much. The game is being fundamentally changed as a live spectacle.

If it turns out to affect attendances and the all important tv viewing figures (people who watch in China are obviously more important than mugs like us who show up to our respective grounds to follow our team), then I could potentially see it reversed. Or at least made far more palatable. Perhaps a review system like cricket and tennis. And like cricket, decisions overturned when it's a clear error, as opposed to something marginal - umpires call.

 

[clubchamp98]

If it turns out to affect attendances and the all important tv viewing figures (people who watch in China are obviously more important than mugs like us who show up to our respective grounds to follow our team), then I could potentially see it reversed. Or at least made far more palatable. Perhaps a review system like cricket and tennis. And like cricket, decisions overturned when it's a clear error, as opposed to something marginal - umpires call.

Don’t think it will affect armchair viewers ,quite the opposite imo.
But the match going fans it will effect it makes it very sterile.
As you said ,don’t know when to celebrate or not!

 

[Tashyboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49408507
And unfortunately as i said its here to stay. They are saying that five of the decisions reviewed have been overturned as is the ruling. And there is the heart of the problem. The ruling.
How can it be right that an attacker. Has a ball accidentally touch his hand and the goal is disallowed. Yet if it is a defender its not handball. How can we have two different outcomes for the same offence.
Same with offside. Its millimetres, how about clear daylight like when the ball is over the line.
Its not VAR thats wrong, its the rules that are wrong.
VAR was brought in to make sure that the laws of the game were upheld. Unfortunately the handball law was brought in this year and has helped to make VAR Look like a pigs ear.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Tashy, you are dead right. People are blaming VAR when the fault is with the rules. VAR is being used as a scapegoat.

 

[Grant85]

I'm surprised not to see a thread on VAR yet, so thought I'd start one.
Heard some brilliant debates on it the last couple of weeks, but in summary, here are my thoughts on it.

- VAR is great for football and needed
- the definition of offside is the real problem. There should be clear daylight between players, not a toe or a knees length
- the new handball rule is absolutely stupid and needs sorting out too, punishing only clear and obvious handballs
- VAR should have every angle available to them. I've heard that they don't have access to a lot of views/angles, which I thought was barbaric


What are people's thoughts on it?
I'm not a fan so far and would want rid of it if they don't make the above changes (which aren't actually the fault of VAR).

I agree with much of that.

Would be interesting to see the offside rule changed to what you suggest. However, you would still have hairline decisions where someone's toe or knee was just onside or just offside. Your change doesn't reduce the close calls, it just moves the line. But what it does do is give a forward a much greater advantage as they can be the best part of a yard past the defender and still be onside. This would, imo, lead to fewer teams playing a high line or trying to 'set' an offside trap with a mobile defence and pressing midfielders. Possibly leading to 'weaker' teams finding it easier to keep the ball and work possession forward when up against the likes of Liverpool, City, Barca etc.

Also - don't really agree with you on the handball rule. The rule has been changed to make it more clear cut. i.e. if it hits your hand, it's a free kick / penalty etc. From an officiating point of view, much less contentious and there's no subjectivity with regards 'he meant that or his hand was in an unnatural position or he could have gotten his hand away etc'.

I remember going to games in the Scottish Championship and seeing centre-backs coming out with hands behind their back so there was no chance of a cross or shot hitting their hand and giving away a penalty.
Apart from being brave, this was ultimately foolish as so few penalties were given for blocks at point blank range. Ultimately the rules encouraged defenders at close range to leave their arms there to be hit as penalties were only given if the ball had travelled a great distance or it was adjudged that the handball was deliberate.

As it stands I wouldn't change much and would maybe go to greater lengths to explain the changes and why they have been made (assuming the handball change has been made for the reasons I've said).

I'd 100% rather have VAR, than not and I'm sure as things progress we will see decisions being made that little bit quicker, as well as people simply getting used to it and realising that it is here to stay.

At the moment it is still referred to as a 'Drama' or 'Controversy' when a goal originally given is ruled out by VAR, even if it is the correct decision. Within weeks, that kind of nonsense will stop and it will just be part of the game.

 

[Orikoru]

Agree with every word.

My biggest concern, and the Wolves manager hinted at this the other day, is how it will affect the feeling of scoring a goal. Up until the end of last season, when my team scored I went mental. It was a purely spontaneous experience. A goal was a goal and they were virtually never chalked off. Even if they were, it was usually a second or two after the ball hit the net.

Once your team gets a couple of goals disallowed through VAR, your mind will learn that a goal now means that its it's probably goal, but it may well not be too... Your feelings will never be the same, never as passionate and crazy, and I find that an awful thought.

Still, my team have managed to not score at all this season, so maybe if we carry that on I won't need to be concerned

I think people are overstating this "you can't celebrate goals anymore" point. For 90% of goals there is no question of it being ruled it because there is nothing dubious about it. If some nods it in and they're possibly offside, then yeah it's probably going to be reviewed, that's all. Ones like the Jesus disallowed goal will be extremely rare I should think, it's not as if people were often scoring goals with the ball deflecting off someone's arm in the old rules were they?? How often did that happen last season? Celebrating a goal is an involuntary reaction anyway. If anything, you get to celebrate it twice - once when it goes in, and again when it's not overturned.

 

[Grant85]

I think people are overstating this "you can't celebrate goals anymore" point. For 90% of goals there is no question of it being ruled it because there is nothing dubious about it. If some nods it in and they're possibly offside, then yeah it's probably going to be reviewed, that's all. Ones like the Jesus disallowed goal will be extremely rare I should think, it's not as if people were often scoring goals with the ball deflecting off someone's arm in the old rules were they?? How often did that happen last season? Celebrating a goal is an involuntary reaction anyway. If anything, you get to celebrate it twice - once when it goes in, and again when it's not overturned.

I watched Wolves celebrate their goal twice on Monday.
Once when it was scored, then once again when they checked for an offside in the build up and announced the goal stands.

 

[jp5]

Don't worry lads we won't have to put up with VAR after Brexit

https://twitter.com/x/status/1164058646634008579

 

[Tashyboy]

Owww thats cruel 😁

 

[Tashyboy]

Theres a lovely video club doing the rounds of Wolves fans giving there universal disapproval of VAR. easy enough to post a link but an infraction would follow. Fair to say there not happy. Its on football awaydays.

 

[JV24601]

I agree with much of that.

Would be interesting to see the offside rule changed to what you suggest. However, you would still have hairline decisions where someone's toe or knee was just onside or just offside. Your change doesn't reduce the close calls, it just moves the line. But what it does do is give a forward a much greater advantage as they can be the best part of a yard past the defender and still be onside. This would, imo, lead to fewer teams playing a high line or trying to 'set' an offside trap with a mobile defence and pressing midfielders. Possibly leading to 'weaker' teams finding it easier to keep the ball and work possession forward when up against the likes of Liverpool, City, Barca etc.

Also - don't really agree with you on the handball rule. The rule has been changed to make it more clear cut. i.e. if it hits your hand, it's a free kick / penalty etc. From an officiating point of view, much less contentious and there's no subjectivity with regards 'he meant that or his hand was in an unnatural position or he could have gotten his hand away etc'.

I remember going to games in the Scottish Championship and seeing centre-backs coming out with hands behind their back so there was no chance of a cross or shot hitting their hand and giving away a penalty.
Apart from being brave, this was ultimately foolish as so few penalties were given for blocks at point blank range. Ultimately the rules encouraged defenders at close range to leave their arms there to be hit as penalties were only given if the ball had travelled a great distance or it was adjudged that the handball was deliberate.

As it stands I wouldn't change much and would maybe go to greater lengths to explain the changes and why they have been made (assuming the handball change has been made for the reasons I've said).

I'd 100% rather have VAR, than not and I'm sure as things progress we will see decisions being made that little bit quicker, as well as people simply getting used to it and realising that it is here to stay.

At the moment it is still referred to as a 'Drama' or 'Controversy' when a goal originally given is ruled out by VAR, even if it is the correct decision. Within weeks, that kind of nonsense will stop and it will just be part of the game.

Likewise Grant, I agree with most of your post.

The only thing I'd say about handball, is that I don't think the rules should be made based on the officiating point of view.
Granted, the handball rule is now extremely easy for them, and the VARs. However, the rules surely have to be based around what's right for the game and what will improve the game.

I just didn't see a problem with "clear and obvious", for handballs. We now have the VARs who can quickly check to see if it was.
In your example of defenders coming out with their hands behind their backs, I think it's admirable if you can. John Terry was the master at flinging himself 'naturally' so that his arms were defending too. That imo, is cheating, even if the momentum of the lunge causes the arms to get in the way.