VAR - Thoughts

[Deleted member 16999]

A couple of times I have quoted scenarios that could of happened and have. Here’s another one.

When an occasion happens like the Burnley game Yesterday. The ? Penalty that is awarded by VAR does not come into effect until the whistle is blown for a goal, corner, throw in etc etc. The time for that to happen could be seconds or minutes. Does that
“ dead time“ get added on as injury time. What would happen if that happens in the dying minutes of a game, a game that could be a final. There’s gonna be a riot. The running of VAR in its present format is quite simply a joke.

They review it the next time the play is stopped, irrelevant if it’s the first or last minute.

What if the Ref had stopped the BMouth attack yesterday and VAR decided no pen? How is that fair on BMouth.

You can’t instantly stop the game every time VAR wants a review.

 

[robinthehood]

Fair point Stu; that and a re-write of the offside rules, or at least a decent interpretation of them.

I've heard all the arguments about you're either offside or you're not, you can't be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you aren't. Well, look at it another way; you're either speeding or you're not, but you can be a little bit over the limit and have a sensible application of the law. If we had that with the offside decisions instead of looking at toenails with a system that isn't refined enough to guarantee it's the correct decision then it might get a little bit more support. Was that a clear and obvious error on Monday with GIROUD? The hell it was.

What changes to the offside rule would you make to improve the VAR experience?

 

[Swango1980]

A couple of times I have quoted scenarios that could of happened and have. Here’s another one.

When an occasion happens like the Burnley game Yesterday. The ? Penalty that is awarded by VAR does not come into effect until the whistle is blown for a goal, corner, throw in etc etc. The time for that to happen could be seconds or minutes. Does that
“ dead time“ get added on as injury time. What would happen if that happens in the dying minutes of a game, a game that could be a final. There’s gonna be a riot. The running of VAR in its present format is quite simply a joke.

In terms of you main point, no idea. There were games this season that, even when ball was out of play and they held play back whilst VAR did its thing, that time wasnt added on anyway. Seems like it is up to ref on pitch.

But, I assume the time in NOT added on for the dead time whilst ball in play, when VAR decided to overturn earlier incident. Simply because, the ref will not know a decision will be overturned, and so will not stop their watch. For example, penalty appeal, ref doesn't give it and plsu continues. The ref will not have stopped watch at that point so if play continues ref will be unsure as to.how long passed between incident and when VAr gives it.

Just to point out, the ball doesn't gave to go out of play. There was a City match where there was a penalty incident, not given. Play went on for almost 2 minutes after, ball just wouldn't go out. Red ended up blowing whistle mid play purely because VAR told him it was a penalty.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

What changes to the offside rule would you make to improve the VAR experience?

It's very difficult to change the offside rule fairly than what weve got now. People want 100% perfection, it's impossible.

What I would say is if a player's head is ahead of the lines/offside and scores with his right foot where is the advantage gained?

 

[Tashyboy]

They review it the next time the play is stopped, irrelevant if it’s the first or last minute.

What if the Ref had stopped the BMouth attack yesterday and VAR decided no pen? How is that fair on BMouth.

You can’t instantly stop the game every time VAR wants a review.

1,And this is my point, why does VAR have to be looked at when the ref blows his whistle. Reading your post it sounds like you think folk sit in the VAR room and do nowt til the whistle blows. Every goal is checked for VAR, we all agree on that. But VAR is checking for a penalty as soon as the incident happens.They know it’s a penalty after X time. Why play the game for another X amount of time before deciding coz the refs blown his whistle we can now go back to the VAR decision.
2nd point, The ref is not gonna stop the game to look at a review, that review is already underway. As soon as that decision re VAR has been made, stop the game. It’s pointless it going on until the ref blows.
3, see Point 2.

 

[robinthehood]

It's very difficult to change the offside rule fairly than what weve got now. People want 100% perfection, it's impossible.

What I would say is if a player's head is ahead of the lines/offside and scores with his right foot where is the advantage gained?

Yeah i get what you mean, the problem is there will always be measurement lines somewhere and that's what seem to get to people. I'd like to see a time limit may be, for all decisions. If you can't see the error within 45 seconds or whatever then the on field one stands.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

1,And this is my point, why does VAR have to be looked at when the ref blows his whistle. Reading your post it sounds like you think folk sit in the VAR room and do nowt til the whistle blows. Every goal is checked for VAR, we all agree on that. But VAR is checking for a penalty as soon as the incident happens.They know it’s a penalty after X time. Why play the game for another X amount of time before deciding coz the refs blown his whistle we can now go back to the VAR decision.
2nd point, The ref is not gonna stop the game to look at a review, that review is already underway. As soon as that decision re VAR has been made, stop the game. It’s pointless it going on until the ref blows.
3, see Point 2.

Because that’s not what happens:
VAR can only be used in certain circumstances and advise the Ref, ie.
VAR: Hey Ref I think that was a penalty?
Ref: No it wasn’t, I had a clear view and no penalty.
VAR: OK,

Or

Ref: Is there any reason I can not award a goal.
VAR: Just checking, Looks like hand ball in the build up we are looking at other angles:
Ref: OK, I saw nothing.
VAR: Handball by defender prior to ball being cleared, penalty to opposition and no goal.
Ref: OK, are you sure?
VAR: Yes.

VAR Officials don’t make decisions on one angle and would be behind play if they tried to, hence why certain decisions and when play stops.

It’s not 100%, but it’s better than 3 Officials alone on the pitch.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Yeah i get what you mean, the problem is there will always be measurement lines somewhere and that's what seem to get to people. I'd like to see a time limit may be, for all decisions. If you can't see the error within 45 seconds or whatever then the on field one stands.

I'd rather get rid of VAR and help improve the standard of refs. I've always wanted consistency from refs, I have now accepted its impossible to get consistent refs.

I'm curious how many decisions would be changed had the ref on the field had looked at the monitor. That for me has to be the next step if VAR is to continue.

 

[Tashyboy]

Because that’s not what happens:
VAR can only be used in certain circumstances and advise the Ref, ie.
VAR: Hey Ref I think that was a penalty?
Ref: No it wasn’t, I had a clear view and no penalty.
VAR: OK,

Or

Ref: Is there any reason I can not award a goal.
VAR: Just checking, Looks like hand ball in the build up we are looking at other angles:
Ref: OK, I saw nothing.
VAR: Handball by defender prior to ball being cleared, penalty to opposition and no goal.
Ref: OK, are you sure?
VAR: Yes.

VAR Officials don’t make decisions on one angle and would be behind play if they tried to, hence why certain decisions and when play stops.

It’s not 100%, but it’s better than 3 Officials alone on the pitch.

Paul am not saying VAR, don’t have a place in football. It does, we have shouted long enough for it on here. But we never asked for the village idiots to be running it. The reason we wanted VAR is because because of the poor referee standards.Who is in charge of VAR Now.

I keep going on about Scenarios. What happens if team A should have a penalty, game plays on and a minute later team A scores. VAR then says Team A should of had a penalty. Does the goal stand? is it a penalty? Flippin eck looking forward to that one. It’s just so inconsistent.
My lad came back from the Leicester v City game last night. I mentioned Leicester were unlucky not to get a penalty. He did not have a clue what I was on about. Did VAR have a look at it, am sure they did but match going fans didn’t.

 

[Swango1980]

Paul am not saying VAR, don’t have a place in football. It does, we have shouted long enough for it on here. But we never asked for the village idiots to be running it. The reason we wanted VAR is because because of the poor referee standards.Who is in charge of VAR Now.

I keep going on about Scenarios. What happens if team A should have a penalty, game plays on and a minute later team A scores. VAR then says Team A should of had a penalty. Does the goal stand? is it a penalty? Flippin eck looking forward to that one. It’s just so inconsistent.
My lad came back from the Leicester v City game last night. I mentioned Leicester were unlucky not to get a penalty. He did not have a clue what I was on about. Did VAR have a look at it, am sure they did but match going fans didn’t.

I suspect the goal would stand. Advantage to the team that could have had the penalty on all that. If VAR ruled out their goal to give a penalty instead, I'd love to see the fan reaction on that one

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Just saw Bournemouth game on Match of the Day.

So, apparently shoulder is handball. Or, it's not. Or, maybe it is. Nope, definitely not. Actually, absolutely no idea anymore. That VAR ref was probably just tossing a coin. Maybe that's what they all do?

The Bournemouth game was an absolute farce yesterday. 2 good goals chalked off and one changed to a penalty ?

 

[Tashyboy]

I suspect the goal would stand. Advantage to the team that could have had the penalty on all that. If VAR ruled out their goal to give a penalty instead, I'd love to see the fan reaction on that one

Hope to god it never happens.

 

[Reemul]

What changes to the offside rule would you make to improve the VAR experience?

The main thing wrong with VAR is digital lines, no player or ref has digital lines on there interface, just eyes. If you cannot decide it is an error by looking at in then it stays with the decision made by the referee, the minute you are using camera angles and digital lines it's wrong and certainly not an obvious error. In rugby it's all done by eyesite and in cricket if it's very close it stays with umpires call.

Var should be used when someone gets kicked in the nuts and it's missed or stamped on and it's missed or someone hand balls the ball in the goal to go to the world cup. A foot 6 inches too far over is not what anyone envisioned VAR being used for.

Currently VAR is screwing around with inches and failing with the serious issues that have been missed. Everyone seems to think it's difficult to fix, it's not it;s just being used so poorly it's creating more errors than ever.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

What changes to the offside rule would you make to improve the VAR experience?

Here's a radical thought.
Do away with offside completely. Loads more goals (which is what fans want to see) and rules out any dubious decisions. Think of all those exciting games finishing 6-5 ?

 

[Tashyboy]

Dave, heres another radical thought. Gary Neville had just said " we can hear what's being said between the ref and Stockley". Eh why can we not hear what these clowns are saying. Are Match going fans and 2nd class telly fans not educated enough to listen in.

 

[Blue in Munich]

What changes to the offside rule would you make to improve the VAR experience?

Yeah i get what you mean, the problem is there will always be measurement lines somewhere and that's what seem to get to people. I'd like to see a time limit may be, for all decisions. If you can't see the error within 45 seconds or whatever then the on field one stands.

As a starting point I'd have the existing rules applied sensibly. VAR as it exists is not fine tuned enough to guarantee beyond all doubt that players are offside or not; it apparently works on a tolerance that is up to 8 inches yet is giving players one or two inches offside. Imagine getting a ticket for doing 31mph in a 30mph limit and knowing that the working tolerance on the speed gun is +/- 2mph; so you might have been speeding at up to 33mph, but equally you might be spot on the limit or even under it. It's farcical.

VAR was brought to deal with clear and obvious error. If it doesn't look offside on the first look from each angle, it's not offside. If you need to get lines out then it's not offside. It's that simple really.

VAR was also brought in to deal with serious foul play. There were 2 instances at Stamford Bridge where they looked at it and completely screwed it up (and yesterday's farce made the Maguire incident look well handled!). There was a third incident which I believe wasn't even looked at; how you can have a player on the deck with a busted nose that's pouring claret and not look at VAR to see how it happened? Not only are the on pitch referees not consistent, the application of the system that is supposed to stop inconsistencies is even more inconsistent than the inconsistencies it is supposed to sort out. If I had to guess the name of the training manual's author, my money would be on John Cleese.

I'm a season ticket holder at Chelsea. Yesterday we were playing the London team we most want to beat. Twice we scored; twice I stayed in my seat wondering what excuse VAR would find to chalk off the goals. The festering crock of that is VAR is completely wrecking the match day experience as far as I'm concerned.

And while we're about it, take the watch off the referee's wrist, 30 minutes each way of the ball in play in the hands of a timekeeper. Let's actually watch the football pay to see rather than a load of time wasting.

Oh, and kick off is 3pm on a Saturday afternoon or 7.45pm on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. End of. I am hacked off looking at theatre & concert dates and trying to guess whether Sky/Bt/Amazon will move the dates so I have a conflict.

I think that's it for the moment, but I may be back.

 

[Imurg]

As a starting point I'd have the existing rules applied sensibly. VAR as it exists is not fine tuned enough to guarantee beyond all doubt that players are offside or not; it apparently works on a tolerance that is up to 8 inches yet is giving players one or two inches offside. Imagine getting a ticket for doing 31mph in a 30mph limit and knowing that the working tolerance on the speed gun is +/- 2mph; so you might have been speeding at up to 33mph, but equally you might be spot on the limit or even under it. It's farcical.

VAR was brought to deal with clear and obvious error. If it doesn't look offside on the first look from each angle, it's not offside. If you need to get lines out then it's not offside. It's that simple really.

VAR was also brought in to deal with serious foul play. There were 2 instances at Stamford Bridge where they looked at it and completely screwed it up (and yesterday's farce made the Maguire incident look well handled!). There was a third incident which I believe wasn't even looked at; how you can have a player on the deck with a busted nose that's pouring claret and not look at VAR to see how it happened? Not only are the on pitch referees not consistent, the application of the system that is supposed to stop inconsistencies is even more inconsistent than the inconsistencies it is supposed to sort out. If I had to guess the name of the training manual's author, my money would be on John Cleese.

I'm a season ticket holder at Chelsea. Yesterday we were playing the London team we most want to beat. Twice we scored; twice I stayed in my seat wondering what excuse VAR would find to chalk off the goals. The festering crock of that is VAR is completely wrecking the match day experience as far as I'm concerned.

And while we're about it, take the watch off the referee's wrist, 30 minutes each way of the ball in play in the hands of a timekeeper. Let's actually watch the football pay to see rather than a load of time wasting.

Oh, and kick off is 3pm on a Saturday afternoon or 7.45pm on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. End of. I am hacked off looking at theatre & concert dates and trying to guess whether Sky/Bt/Amazon will move the dates so I have a conflict.

I think that's it for the moment, but I may be back.

So you're not happy then.....

 

[Blue in Munich]

So you're not happy then.....

I actually hope it could sort out the cheating and diving. It's done nothing on that front, and is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in most other respects. We've gone backwards at a rate of knots.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Oh, and kick off is 3pm on a Saturday afternoon or 7.45pm on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. End of. I am hacked off looking at theatre & concert dates and trying to guess whether Sky/Bt/Amazon will move the dates so I have a conflict.

I think that's it for the moment, but I may be back.

Whilst I get the frustration I couldn’t do Sunday‘s without football, I enjoy it too much.

What really pisses me off is when games get changed by Sky knowing there’s a very good chance the games they’ve changed will have to be moved again at a later date but at short notice. Travel and accommodation cant be booked or changed.

 

[Tashyboy]

As a starting point I'd have the existing rules applied sensibly. VAR as it exists is not fine tuned enough to guarantee beyond all doubt that players are offside or not; it apparently works on a tolerance that is up to 8 inches yet is giving players one or two inches offside. Imagine getting a ticket for doing 31mph in a 30mph limit and knowing that the working tolerance on the speed gun is +/- 2mph; so you might have been speeding at up to 33mph, but equally you might be spot on the limit or even under it. It's farcical.

VAR was brought to deal with clear and obvious error. If it doesn't look offside on the first look from each angle, it's not offside. If you need to get lines out then it's not offside. It's that simple really.

VAR was also brought in to deal with serious foul play. There were 2 instances at Stamford Bridge where they looked at it and completely screwed it up (and yesterday's farce made the Maguire incident look well handled!). There was a third incident which I believe wasn't even looked at; how you can have a player on the deck with a busted nose that's pouring claret and not look at VAR to see how it happened? Not only are the on pitch referees not consistent, the application of the system that is supposed to stop inconsistencies is even more inconsistent than the inconsistencies it is supposed to sort out. If I had to guess the name of the training manual's author, my money would be on John Cleese.

I'm a season ticket holder at Chelsea. Yesterday we were playing the London team we most want to beat. Twice we scored; twice I stayed in my seat wondering what excuse VAR would find to chalk off the goals. The festering crock of that is VAR is completely wrecking the match day experience as far as I'm concerned.

And while we're about it, take the watch off the referee's wrist, 30 minutes each way of the ball in play in the hands of a timekeeper. Let's actually watch the football pay to see rather than a load of time wasting.

Oh, and kick off is 3pm on a Saturday afternoon or 7.45pm on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. End of. I am hacked off looking at theatre & concert dates and trying to guess whether Sky/Bt/Amazon will move the dates so I have a conflict.

I think that's it for the moment, but I may be back.

Ave said all of the above and more with a couple of rammels chucked in. Anyone who says VAR just needs fine tuning Is a one eyed king in the valley of the blind. Or they have shares in the company.