Vaccines

[clubchamp98]

Going from ''It might not work for everyone'' to ''It’s bound to have a bad effect on some people'' is a bit of a leap.

Why .? people have lots of allergies.
It’s not going to be a magic bullet for everyone
There will be people who have a bad reaction to this , there aren’t many drugs every human can take without somebody having a reaction, it might be mild it might not.
But I am sure it’s as safe as they can make it given the time scale they are working by.
That’s why we will have a choice.

 

[Ethan]

Aggressive again.

The post I made was not false or misleading. The post I made just in case you missed it is my thoughts and some facts. Thats what forums normally are.

I know about post viral symptoms as we have discussed before, they are not new and some virus have nasty post stuff for sure. I never even mentioned post viral stuff in my post, but yeah its part of the big picture and is something I take into account when considering the vaccines.

You replied with some valid points (you can dismiss certain vaccines for instance but there are plenty of other examples of medical errors. You miss the big picture with regards to new medicines and that is, medical errors happen and people live with those errors.).

I do not consider you the oracle or my lecturer on all things medical and happy doing my own research and that isn't rammed down my throat.

Thankfully in life I can choose who I talk to or not and will be my last post to you but wish you well.

I don't either, but looking up stuff on the internet is not research.

Adverse events of medicines are not medical errors. I have plenty of experience dealing with them, thanks.

The effect of your post could be to put some people off getting a vaccine based on some dodgy isolated comments. That requires comment, and if you think it was harsh, sorry.

 

[Ethan]

Just so I am completely clear, I agree people should exercise individual judgement on deciding whether to take a vaccine, at all or when, but that should be based on reliable information and needs a certain amount of trust in the regulator (EMA, FDA, MHRA). They will have approved it based on a detailed examination of a huge dataset, and I would expect some degree of alignment across the Atlantic.

I would recommend that your decision is based on your particular risk (age, co-morbidities, ethnicity, gender, etc) and considers the risk of an unpleasant illness and complications of Covid as well as the risk of death. If you are a young fit person and decide not to get it, fine and good luck. If you are a bit older, like me, better to have it in my opinion, and I will put my money where my mouth is, but still your call. Nobody will be forced into having it.

 

[Tashyboy]

It is very unlikely the first vaccines will be 95% vaccines, saying that I hope they are.

There are times when rushed medicines have not been a good thing and I think you have to look at the whole picture and be very balanced and not blinded on one side. Especially as vaccinating millions and millions of people and you do not know the medium to long term effects of the vaccine.

There are good reasons why vaccines normally take a lot longer than normal medicines to come to market, as you are giving it to generally healthy people......and who at this stage we do not know truly the long term effects of the vaccines(if anyone is interested I have a couple of links saved that show all the different kinds of vaccines being developed and the technology being used on the vaccine types. Quite an interesting read and almost all of them are very clever)

You have to bear in mind that this viruses death rate is fairly low for the under 50s or even under 60s(estimates now less than 1% even some lower giving it as lower than 0.5%). So any bad vaccines could give worse results if side effects filter though. I don't care what the big chiefs say tbh, they are not truly independent and do not know the long term effects(if any), until longer term comes.

So for an example Swine Flu vaccine, there were some nasty side effects for the younger generation :-

https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/...1n1_safety_assessing/narcolepsy_statement/en/

As clubchamp98 says its a choice we will have to make and for certain I am glad I do not have young children that I have to decide for, as they are the safest from the virus anyway. Think it is an easy choice for the much older 70-80+ year olds who have underlying conditions tho.

This is why I was interested in the poll results, as the whole is far from clear for many and why I am probably in the camp of wait and see for a while, which I will be anyway as the vaccine will not be there for me initially as they are more deserving pressing cases/people.

an excellent read, could you pm Me those links please me man, just gone into tier 3 so Ave a a bit of time over the next 28 days.

 

[Kellfire]

an excellent read, could you pm Me those links please me man, just gone into tier 3 so Ave a a bit of time over the next 28 days.

This has to be the laziest post ever! Just save the links!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The forum seems to be big on advice just recently and, in itself there is no problem with that.

However, on a subject such as this I would think it rather important to consider who is offering that advice.

Personally I would have rather more trust in the opinion of a medical professional over that of someone who surfs the Internet with no such expert background.

 

[Jamesbrown]

The forum seems to be big on advice just recently and, in itself there is no problem with that.

However, on a subject such as this I would think it rather important to consider who is offering that advice.

Personally I would have rather more trust in the opinion of a medical professional over that of someone who surfs the Internet with no such expert background.

what medical professional? The one on the internet? Could be a podiatrist for all you know!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

what medical professional? The one on the internet? Could be a podiatrist for all you know!

I understand that @Ethan has a relevant background.

I have no idea who it is that you are referring to.

 

[Jamesbrown]

I understand that @Ethan has a relevant background.

I have no idea who it is that you are referring to.

Ethan clearly, I’m sure he is who he says he is. But don’t put your trust in people on the internet. Do your own research.

“Everybody lies” Dr gregory House, head of diagnostic medicine Princeton Plainsboro New Jersey

 

[Ethan]

Ethan clearly, I’m sure he is who he says he is. But don’t put your trust in people on the internet. Do your own research.

“Everybody lies” Dr gregory House, head of diagnostic medicine Princeton Plainsboro New Jersey

I will assume you are not accusing me of lying via the words of a fictional character.

Everyone should do their own research, but doing so properly is more difficult than it seems.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ethan clearly, I’m sure he is who he says he is. But don’t put your trust in people on the internet. Do your own research.

“Everybody lies” Dr gregory House, head of diagnostic medicine Princeton Plainsboro New Jersey

Exactly!

I will absorb what someone like @Ethan has to say on the subject but I am afraid that I remain far less likely to take on board theories offered by those with no relevant experience.

The latter is often the first step towards conspiracy theories etc;

 

[clubchamp98]

The forum seems to be big on advice just recently and, in itself there is no problem with that.

However, on a subject such as this I would think it rather important to consider who is offering that advice.

Personally I would have rather more trust in the opinion of a medical professional over that of someone who surfs the Internet with no such expert background.

My opinion of so called experts has changed a bit over the course of this year.
My own doctor is the one I will listen to when the vaccine is avaliable.

 

[Ethan]

My opinion of so called experts has changed a bit over the course of this year.
My own doctor is the one I will listen to when the vaccine is avaliable.

Well, you should certainly ignore the so-called experts who told you that people have lots of allergies or that it is a major issue with side effects of, or response to, vaccines (post 61).

Your GP will follow the instructions given by the Dept of Health/NHS about who should receive or not receive the vaccine.

 

[Jamesbrown]

I will assume you are not accusing me of lying via the words of a fictional character.

Everyone should do their own research, but doing so properly is more difficult than it seems.

I’m not accusing you of lying, I just wouldn’t be getting medical advice from Ethan the money list winner.
Your opinion is no more valid than DRW’s on a golf forum and your authoritative tone isn’t very palatable especially not knowing your expertise.

I do not discount what you said though and what you posted in regards to vaccines I do majorly agree with.

 

[Ethan]

I’m not accusing you of lying, I just wouldn’t be getting medical advice from Ethan the money list winner.
Your opinion is no more valid than DRW’s on a golf forum and your authoritative tone isn’t very palatable especially not knowing your expertise.

I do not discount what you said though and what you posted in regards to vaccines I do majorly agree with.

Gee, thanks.

 

[clubchamp98]

Well, you should certainly ignore the so-called experts who told you that people have lots of allergies or that it is a major issue with side effects of, or response to, vaccines (post 61).

Your GP will follow the instructions given by the Dept of Health/NHS about who should receive or not receive the vaccine.

Doc asked me if I am allergic to eggs before giving me a flu jab .
Is he wrong?

 

[Ethan]

Doc asked me if I am allergic to eggs before giving me a flu jab .
Is he wrong?

Is he wrong to consider the very unlikely possibility that you might have a severe anaphylactic reaction to some element of the vaccine? No. There were a handful of severe reactions (single figures) to albumin in the flu vaccine amongst the millions vaccinated last year. It is vanishingly unlikely and should be written in large print on the front of your medical records if you have such an allergy.

Covid vaccines are not made with albumin, so no need to ask about eggs for that. Your comment above related to possible risks with Covid vaccines. What allergic reactions were you thinking about?

 

[Kellfire]

I’m not accusing you of lying, I just wouldn’t be getting medical advice from Ethan the money list winner.
Your opinion is no more valid than DRW’s on a golf forum and your authoritative tone isn’t very palatable especially not knowing your expertise.

I do not discount what you said though and what you posted in regards to vaccines I do majorly agree with.

Do you have such little faith in your own critical thinking? Astonishing.

 

[Tashyboy]

This was on sky news a few hours ago. Quote “ Sky news understands”.

The UK is only buying a vaccine to protect the people most vulnerable to COVID-19 - effectively ending any hope of herd immunity in the foreseeable future, Sky News understands.

Every vaccine bought for the UK stockpile since the summer has been on the assumption that just 30 million people - less than half the population - will get it.


With such low coverage, the virus would continue to spread and some form of social distancing would still be needed.

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) issued advice in June that said people over 50, those with underlying health issues, and health and care workers should be given priority.

The young and healthy should only be given the jab once further analysis has been done on the risks and benefits, the committee concluded.

That last bit, what’s the further analysis bit, re short, medium and long term?

 

[MC72]

The logical way to prioritise is by benefit-risk, that is those who stand to benefit most compared to the incremental risk of taking the vaccine compared to not getting it. That is the basis of the JCVI prioritisation, although it is done rather crudely. There is an argument that high risk people under 65 should be prioritised before fit and well older people not in care homes or shielding, but the process is probably designed at least in part to allow bureaucrats to manage it.

I also suspect that private companies will make their own arrangements so you may well be offered a jab by your employer outside of that system well before your number comes up in the NHS process.

Are you a doctor?