Using your shots

[essexguy194]

im a high handicap player, my playing handicap for my course is 28. it is coming down, not as fast as id like, but slowly and surely.

Something someone said to me recently was you need to use your shots better. Saying that i will score better if i start to approach holes thinking i have two extra shots here. I must admit i normally view my handicap as something to make up for my mistakes, not something to actually use as a plan.

We have a couple of par 3's that are stroke 3 and 6, so i get two shots on each. Though i would never think to treat these as a par 4 on in two or as a par 5. I'd stand there and try to hit the green in one, sometimes it works sometimes it dont. Same as with par 4's i will 9 times out of 10 if hazards and distance allows pull out my driver, whereas if i broke it down into 5 or 6 shots i probably wouldnt.

It just feels that with that attitude how will i ever start getting more GIR and ultimately lower scores. My good handicap lowering cards, generally look like a mix of either pars or doubles. So in a sense you can see that when it works i.e good tee shot followed by another good shot, i score well. But when that tee shot is off or oob i then score a double or worse

Would i be better off being less ambitious and maybe not aiming for actual pars but instead my handicap pars, because i dont go for greens in 2, and play for that bogey instead?

Sorry i can tell some of the above is a bit like mad rambling, golf does that to me on a thursday afternoon sat behind the desk. Just wanted peoples opinions on how they use their shots haha

 

[Imurg]

Bogey golf is +18
You're 10 shots better already....
At the moment go for the bogey..Once you get a bit more competent then go for pars.
You'll get the odd par along the way which will allow you the odd double....
Small steps.

 

[Neilds]

It isn't about being more or less ambitious, more like being more realistic. For example - Can you actually reach the green with your second shot from where you are on the fairway/in the rough/behind the trees? If the answer to this question is no, then you need to use you extra shot (or 2) to put the ball where you can be more or less certain to be able to get the ball on the green with your 3rd shot. This may mean a shorter 2nd shot, possibly even with a wedge to get you into position for your next shot. Don't try and pull off a Tiger shot when the chances of it coming off are minimal.
However, on the par 3s, if you are fairly confident you can get on in 1, are striking it well and a bad shot is not going to leave you totally stuffed, then go for it. Again, if you are having a bit of a mare with the club you need to reach the green, just use your shots and get on in 2 - you may even hole your putt for a par

 

[RichA]

12 months ago my handicap and attitude were similar to yours.
Since I accepted, in middle-age and after a 10 year break from golf, that I'm never going to be a tour player, my enjoyment has increased and my handicap has tumbled lower than I dreamed.
For a high-handicapper playing a 400+ yard par 4, driver, mid-iron, 2 putts is not realistic. Mid-iron, 9-iron, wedge, 2 putts is realistic and will give you a net birdie or par.
Just keep it simple and realistic for a few rounds, your confidence will go up and your scores will hopefully go down.
It's you against the course. Don't try to keep up with your mates, if they're a bit better than you.

 

[Backache]

I don't think you should plan how to play a shot/course/hole according to your handicap.
How to play each shot is determined by your capabilities your average dispersion what the conditions and lie are and what the potential penalties are.
If you regularly three/ four putt there is no point in playing conservatively to the green to use up your strokes.Which is not to say that you should never play conservatively but by and large you should plan your shot according to your capabilities and the potential problems that you may encounter or are likely to encounter if you dont succeed with that shot. Attempting to drive long to a wide open fairway bordered by light rough and few hazards /OOB is a very different problem to attempting to carry 150 yds plus over water when an alternative is available.

PS this is quite a good guide to strategy
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/880127.The_Elements_of_Scoring

 

[essexguy194]

Thanks for the replies

12 months ago my handicap and attitude were similar to yours.
Since I accepted, in middle-age and after a 10 year break from golf, that I'm never going to be a tour player, my enjoyment has increased and my handicap has tumbled lower than I dreamed.
For a high-handicapper playing a 400+ yard par 4, driver, mid-iron, 2 putts is not realistic. Mid-iron, 9-iron, wedge, 2 putts is realistic and will give you a net birdie or par.
Just keep it simple and realistic for a few rounds, your confidence will go up and your scores will hopefully go down.
It's you against the course. Don't try to keep up with your mates, if they're a bit better than you.

A lot of that resounds with me to be honest. It’s like using driver. Sometimes it’s great for me but other rounds it’s just not. And I’ll Persist with it, because let’s face it it’s brilliant when it works.
I will try what you’ve said. I do play with a lot of single or low double digit handicappers , so a little of it probably is trying to keep up with them !

 

[essexguy194]

I don't think you should plan how to play a shot/course/hole according to your handicap.
How to play each shot is determined by your capabilities your average dispersion what the conditions and lie are and what the potential penalties are.
If you regularly three/ four putt there is no point in playing conservatively to the green to use up your strokes.Which is not to say that you should never play conservatively but by and large you should plan your shot according to your capabilities and the potential problems that you may encounter or are likely to encounter if you dont succeed with that shot. Attempting to drive long to a wide open fairway bordered by light rough and few hazards /OOB is a very different problem to attempting to carry 150 yds plus over water when an alternative is available.

PS this is quite a good guide to strategy
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/880127.The_Elements_of_Scoring

I’ll have a look at that book for sure.
I think I get what you’re saying regarding the setting out to use shots but more thinking when I need them

 

[essexguy194]

It isn't about being more or less ambitious, more like being more realistic. For example - Can you actually reach the green with your second shot from where you are on the fairway/in the rough/behind the trees? If the answer to this question is no, then you need to use you extra shot (or 2) to put the ball where you can be more or less certain to be able to get the ball on the green with your 3rd shot. This may mean a shorter 2nd shot, possibly even with a wedge to get you into position for your next shot. Don't try and pull off a Tiger shot when the chances of it coming off are minimal.
However, on the par 3s, if you are fairly confident you can get on in 1, are striking it well and a bad shot is not going to leave you totally stuffed, then go for it. Again, if you are having a bit of a mare with the club you need to reach the green, just use your shots and get on in 2 - you may even hole your putt for a par

Thanks for tbis. Definitely need to rethink my approach to the game a bit !

 

[essexguy194]

Bogey golf is +18
You're 10 shots better already....
At the moment go for the bogey..Once you get a bit more competent then go for pars.
You'll get the odd par along the way which will allow you the odd double....
Small steps.

So that being said you have a 400 yard par 4
driver is sometimes good sometimes not
do you go for 7 iron, 7 iron , wedge ? Or driver

 

[Backache]

I’ll have a look at that book for sure.
I think I get what you’re saying regarding the setting out to use shots but more thinking when I need them

Its not so much thinking about when you need shots, you will often use them by hitting poor shots rather than by planning on getting a bogey.
It is more that you honestly appraise your best approach for each shot as it arises .
A scratch golfer may hope to get a birdie on a straight forward par five but if he puts his tee shot into deep rough he may better coming out side ways and possibly getting a bogey rather than attempting to rescue par by trying a long shot that could bury him deeper.
In your example above you have said is it better to go 7, 7 wedge or take a driver on a 400 yard par four.
Even good golfers will often go wrong with seven irons and wedges and you could easily bunker one of them and end up with double bogey or worse.
This does not mean you have to take a driver if the driving is tight but you could for instance take a rescue, a mid iron and then plan for a chip from just short of the green which gives you the opportunity of saving par if you get it close and makes it more likely that you rescue bogey if you miss hit one of the previous shots a bit than if you mishit a seven iron a bit and you are left with a longer shot to the green.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Good advice above. One big advantage in allowing yourself to apply your extra shots to the par of the hole is that it takes pressure off your game. Scoring a 5 on a par 4 where you get two shots means you're playing below your handicap. That's a better way to play than raising your expectations and being disappointed by your gross score.

 

[Orikoru]

A lot of people say it but I don't really agree with 'using your shots' just because they're there. If I think I can get on the green in regulation then I'm going to try. If I think it's unlikely that I'll be able to, then I try and hit a sensible lay-up instead. I think relying on your shots too much puts pressure on my short game, i.e. if I lay up and then fluff the pitch or three putt then it's a double, and I'm unhappy. I think as you said above, having shots for me is just a reflection of the fact I won't always get it right. But the goal is to have less shots over time, so I'm always going to strive for the lowest possible score. ??‍

If you're still getting two shots on some holes though you could definitely play for a bogey on them, since that'd be 3 points so you have more leeway.

 

[fat80b]

Totally agree and was going to post the same.
While playing to your capabilities is a good thing in principle, I think trying to take your shots into account on every hole is a bit too negative an approach. When you are a high handicapper you need to beat your handicap and not just play to it.

And after all you are trying to improve and that comes with practice. I.e If you never play the shot you are trying to improve (e.g you use your shot and lay up with a 7 iron instead of taking on the long iron into the green), then you’ll never improve it……

 

[Ross61]

Play percentage golf. For example on one of our holes, a par 4, I get 2 shots. I can drive to roughly 150-160 yards from the green. I am capable of reaching it, unfortunately there is a pond that starts 80 yards to the green and the far side is 10 yards from the green. I don’t try to hit the green as I am more likely to end up in the pond or go through the green with a nasty chip back on to the green. So I use 1 of my shots to play around the pond or lay up short of the pond. The same as if you have to play a long Iron to a green surrounded by bunkers. Lay up and give yourself an easier shot to the green. The risk is too great otherwise. You have to work out the risk/reward ratio and play accordingly.

 

[HeftyHacker]

Similar to the posts above, I have 12 shots around my place but I also know I can score par or better on every hole on my day (never at the same time obviously!), so that is what I aim to do.

As a result I only try and use my shots to rescue me when I get out of position or if the weather is awful - needing an extra shot into the long par 4s etc.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Its not so much thinking about when you need shots, you will often use them by hitting poor shots rather than by planning on getting a bogey.
It is more that you honestly appraise your best approach for each shot as it arises .
A scratch golfer may hope to get a birdie on a straight forward par five but if he puts his tee shot into deep rough he may better coming out side ways and possibly getting a bogey rather than attempting to rescue par by trying a long shot that could bury him deeper.
In your example above you have said is it better to go 7, 7 wedge or take a driver on a 400 yard par four.
Even good golfers will often go wrong with seven irons and wedges and you could easily bunker one of them and end up with double bogey or worse.
This does not mean you have to take a driver if the driving is tight but you could for instance take a rescue, a mid iron and then plan for a chip from just short of the green which gives you the opportunity of saving par if you get it close and makes it more likely that you rescue bogey if you miss hit one of the previous shots a bit than if you mishit a seven iron a bit and you are left with a longer shot to the green.

I always quote words of Tommy Armour on this…

Play the shot that you have the best chance of playing well to leave you with the easiest next shot.

So if on par4 I have 5i distance to green but I’m not hitting it well, but I know I am hitting 7i well then I will choose to hit 7i short and decide where I want to hit it to give me the easiest chip on. If all goes roughly to plan with my 7i, chances are I’ll then be able to get down in two for a par - 5 at worst.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I always quote words of Tommy Armour on this…

Play the shot that you have the best chance of playing well to leave you with the easiest next shot.

So if on par4 I have 5i distance to green but I’m not hitting it well, but I know I am hitting 7i well then I will choose to hit 7i short and decide where I want to hit it to give me the easiest chip on. If all goes roughly to plan with my 7i, chances are I’ll then be able to get down in two for my par 5 at worst.

Agreed. It's a bit frustrating when I listen to stat experts saying "Amateurs need to club up, they miss short way too much."

But if your 7 iron is reliable and gets you to within 10 yards of the green, then there's no point hitting a 5 or 6 iron if you're more likely to miss left/right and short side yourself, or end up in rough/bunker.

If you're hitting 8/9 iron upwards, then sure club up,but play the % shot ?

Edit: I think it's true that the better you get, the less you need to lean on your shots. Probably once you get under 18 handicap?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Totally agree and was going to post the same.
While playing to your capabilities is a good thing in principle, I think trying to take your shots into account on every hole is a bit too negative an approach. When you are a high handicapper you need to beat your handicap and not just play to it.

And after all you are trying to improve and that comes with practice. I.e If you never play the shot you are trying to improve (e.g you use your shot and lay up with a 7 iron instead of taking on the long iron into the green), then you’ll never improve it……

I think on difficult holes or holes you struggle on then play conservatively and use the shots. On the holes where it's more straightforward and the penalty for missing is less, then you're quite right to take more risk.

 

[Deleted member 25575]

I tend to have a look at the course if im playing the same course, to see where I think I can score, the look to play aggressively on the holes I can score on and more defensively on the ones I'm not too confident on.
On my home course holes 1 to 4 are all scorable for me, yet I don't use driver on any of them, I still like to be even par through those holes, I will play clubs off the tee which a) cant reach the bad stuff and b) leave me with the best chance of a shot in that I feel I can make.
Example hole 2 - ~515y par 5, I could with the right wind maybe go for it in 2, but that means driver off the tee which brings into play 3 fairway bunkers, it also brings a bunker 80y short into play on my 2nd shot. So I take 3w off the tee, then 5i, 6i, 5w off the deck to leave me about 100y in and then a wedge. Scoring average on that hole when I started playing it like that has plummeted.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Agreed. It's a bit frustrating when I listen to stat experts saying "Amateurs need to club up, they miss short way too much."

But if your 7 iron is reliable and gets you to within 10 yards of the green, then there's no point hitting a 5 or 6 iron if you're more likely to miss left/right and short side yourself, or end up in rough/bunker.

If you're hitting 8/9 iron upwards, then sure club up,but play the % shot ?

Edit: I think it's true that the better you get, the less you need to lean on your shots. Probably once you get under 18 handicap?

Re the bit in bold:
There is more than one way to explain that, ie, when you say your 7 iron is reliable, do you mean for distance or accuracy or both, many a time, we amatuers will have X Yards to go to the green and will say to themselves, “That’s my 7 Iron” they hit the 7 Iron and come up short, now that could be because the distance they believe they can hit the 7 Iron is their sunday best and not their average 7 Iron.

Also if as in your case you know your 7 Iron is going to come up short and that is your intention, then the comment wouldn’t apply to you.

I use Game Golf and have for many years and when first analyzing my stats I expected my driving to be poor, but the reality was was that my driving was slightly above average and my biggest issue was being short in to the greens from 200-100yds, when using a variety of clubs.