US style handicap slope introduction

[Wedge1960]

I understand that all the regional golf unions have been informed that the US handicap slope system is to be introduced to the UK and that club officials are to attend training sessions before the end of the year to learn all the in's and out's of the system before the introduction begins sometime next year. Does anyone know any more about this proposed action ?.

 

[rosecott]

As far as I know it will take around 10 years for courses to be re-assessed although it has been accepted in principle - so don't hold your breath, it won't happen overnight.

 

[the_coach]

I understand that all the regional golf unions have been informed that the US handicap slope system is to be introduced to the UK and that club officials are to attend training sessions before the end of the year to learn all the in's and out's of the system before the introduction begins sometime next year. Does anyone know any more about this proposed action ?.

Have wondered if, and when it was going to happen.

We don't have SS or CSS, but have what is called a course handicap which is based from the courses slope rating at it's simplest, (but it's a little more complicated than that). I guess quite a few of you may be familiar with the system from visits.

All courses are given a slope rating (from the different tees too so a course will have a few slope ratings from the different tees/lenghts of the 18 holes) slope ratings range from 55 to 155, 113 is the average slope rating for a course.

For example Pebble Beach from the different tees therefore lengths and given different degree of difficulty with the longest set rated as slope 145 (Black) next slope 143 (Blue) Pebble has 5 different slope ratings. I've played them, if playing a comp from the blacks from my USGA Index handicap of 1, working out the course handicap for me against the slope rating of 145 would still give me a course handicap of 1 but an 18 handicap would have a course handicap of 23 or 24 (depending on the digits 17.6 to 18.3 - SR.CH 23, 18.4 to 19.0 - SR.CH 24)

It's a good system in my view, but guess I would say that, can understand having been used to another folks going to be a little against it perhaps which I can understand.
Have they been slope rating the courses already? will take some time for it all to get sorted, quite a few years I would guess.

Anybody interested can get a more in depth view here.
http://www.usga.org/Handicapping.aspx?id=7792

 

[6inchcup]

how is your original h/c worked out,is it based on your home course and how does it differ from our system,if i am understanding it correctly if i have a h/c of 14 at one course but play a harder course my h/c goes up,doesn't sound right.

 

[Wedge1960]

As far as I can see there are not many courses that will fall outside SSS system , would it not be far more cost effective for the controlling bodies to recognise this and rate the courses accordingly . We all know there are courses that play a couple of shots easier than their par though not many club members will accept the fact, there are also courses that play 3/4 shorts tougher than their SSS let alone par . This is where the disparity begins , a member at the tougher course with say an 18 handicap can quite easily play to a 12 at the easier course. This is one side of the problem here is another , at the moment I play at a Par 73 SSS 73 course that plays 7050 off the medal tees and because of it's exposed position can be as windy as any links along with links style rough in the summer. The soil conditions produce reduced runout on the fairways and all except 2 greens play 5 clubs deep with contouring along the lines of Augusta , while it is a great test for regional pro' s , elite amateurs and is a great test for anyone on their game , the club really struggles to attract category 1 players as the majority gain 2/3 shot on their handicap . This is not a financially sound position.

I would say to a man/lady all of the membership enjoy the course immensely but would benefit from a more realistic SSS. To implement the slope system will impose an unrealistic burden on county and club finances in a time when very few can afford it , it may well push quite a number into bankruptcy . May be the powers that be would be better to extend the SSS envelope to 3 or even 4 shots either way to bring the two extreme types of layout into the fold and encourage a more level playing field for all.

When courses averaged 5800 to 6400 yds there really did not seem to be a problem but with courses stretching out to 7350 and more the situation needs to be addressed in a sensible fiscally responsible manner.

 

[the_coach]

how is your original h/c worked out,is it based on your home course and how does it differ from our system,if i am understanding it correctly if i have a h/c of 14 at one course but play a harder course my h/c goes up,doesn't sound right.

The USGA don't give you a handicap index, all the Clubs have to apply and have a license from the USGA, I guess in the same way your club looks after your handicap and how your first got one.
Although the USGA are in charge of the formula that's used to calculate the USGA index handicap a golfer has, it's the home club that's in charge of the operation of it through the year. It's a system that allows players of different levels to be able to compete on a 'more level' basis throughout the different ranges, as yours does.
Don't forget the slope system will affect all handicaps to some degree if your playing a course with a harder slope, it's just in proportion, so the lower index you are the less help you'll get, I guess much the same as your SS and CSS systems works.

 

[Cheifi0]

Is it true that you basically hand in all cards including social games?

 

[the_coach]

Is it true that you basically hand in all cards including social games?

Easier than me typing it all out, I'm thinking this is what you meant.

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Q. What scores are acceptable for handicap posting purposes?
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A. Almost all scores are acceptable because of the basic premise of the USGA Handicap Systemâ„¢ which states that every player will try to make the best score at each hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for peer review. Therefore, all of the following are acceptable scores:

• When at least seven holes are played (7-12 holes are posted as a 9-hole score; 13 or more are posted as an 18-hole score)
• Scores on all courses with a valid Course Ratingâ„¢ and Slope Rating®
• Scores in all forms of competition: match play, stroke play, and team competitions where each player play their own ball
• Scores made under The Rules Of Golf
• Scores played under the local rule of “preferred lies”
• Scores made in an area observing an active season

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[Cheifi0]

Easier than me typing it all out, I'm thinking this is what you meant.

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Q. What scores are acceptable for handicap posting purposes?
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[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]
A. Almost all scores are acceptable because of the basic premise of the USGA Handicap Systemâ„¢ which states that every player will try to make the best score at each hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for peer review. Therefore, all of the following are acceptable scores:

• When at least seven holes are played (7-12 holes are posted as a 9-hole score; 13 or more are posted as an 18-hole score)
• Scores on all courses with a valid Course Ratingâ„¢ and Slope Rating®
• Scores in all forms of competition: match play, stroke play, and team competitions where each player play their own ball
• Scores made under The Rules Of Golf
• Scores played under the local rule of “preferred lies”
• Scores made in an area observing an active season

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It is, thanks. Do you think it his is more accurate?

 

[the_coach]

It is, thanks. Do you think it his is more accurate?

I guess, looking at it objectively as I can, being part of it already, and having only looked at SS & CSS from the outside really. Although I can see how folks used to their current system would be naturally a bit wary of it. It's going to be difficult I guess for folks to get their head around it all, but it has too take some time to get sorted out and into operation I would have thought, I don't know personally that it's even been decided that it's going to go ahead. Does anybody know if this is really actually the case.
Stack of info here if anyone wants it.
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[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Each link describes a bit more of the system
Section 2 Using a trend handicap[/TD]
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[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=2[/TD]
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Section 3 Establishing a handicap index/4 course handicap/5max handicap/6 players competing from a different course rating or tees[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=3[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=4[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=5[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=6[/TD]
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Section 4[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=7[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=8[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=9[/TD]
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Section 5[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=10[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=11[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=12[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=13[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=14[/TD]
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Section 6[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=15[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=16[/TD]
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Section 7[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=17[/TD]
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Section 8[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=18[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=19[/TD]
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Section 9[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=20[/TD]
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Section 10[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=21[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=22[/TD]
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Section 12[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=23[/TD]
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Section 13[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=24[/TD]
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Section 17[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 487, align: left"]http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=25[/TD]
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[Foxholer]

And here's a link to the site of the guy that created it.

http://www.popeofslope.com/

Plenty of other great info on the site too!

A couple of things to note.

The introduction of Slope does not mean that the US Handicap System is being introduced - though Slope is a pre-requisite. It's likely that a single system will be adopted worldwide - and that will be based on the US system. NZ adopted it in 2000/2001. Aus about 2010 and (at least initially) only for competition rounds.

I believe ELGA has rated all Ladies Courses in England, though that's very much 2nd hand and quite old info. There are quite a few courses, mostly tourist oriented ones, that have Slope Ratings.

The Slope system provides more assistance to higher handicaps - in effect 'more than full allowance' compared to Congu. Congu is based solely on Scratch golfer performance. Slope is based on both Scratch and Bogey golfer - and the scoring 'Slope' between the 2 levels (on the particular course).

There is no real way to equate handicaps between the 2 systems - and they both have advantages and disadvantages imo. In my experience, US style Indexes are lower than UK Handicaps for the same level of player though - by 1-3 in UK Single figures and 2-5 from 10-18.

@coach. While SSS/CSS doesn't in itself provide an allowance for higher handicaps. In fact, because higher handicaps have a larger Buffer in which they can score before going up, they are actually 'penalised' in the Congu system. SSS pretty much equates to Course Rating- though CR has decimal place. CSS is a statistics based adjusted SSS, from the scores in a particular competition.

 

[the_coach]

The guys in a lot of the Aussie courses, biggest ones at least, have it all down on an electronic card which they just feed into a terminal at the course, think it's called Golfline.

Makes sense to have some sort of a unified world wide system would have thought, and based on some kind of a unified 'slope system' seems a good way to go.

SR-CH has more than 1 decimal place and then it's rounded up.

 

[EuanRoss]

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with the CONGU system.

Coach, does slope take into effect conditions on the day. For example. CONGU allows for a change in CSS based on the performance of the field. Ie if everyone plays poorly perhaps due to poor weather conditions, the CSS will rise and reflect this.

 

[BTatHome]

Not sure if the slope and handicap discussions are different things completely. AFAIK the slope just determines a playing handicap for the course ... competition CSS is still in existence now, and the 'new' system is not defined apart from it being based on the usga system (with changes that have not been discussed yet).

 

[EuanRoss]

I'd simply suggest we don't need a new system. The one we have is fine.

 

[garyinderry]

this sounds like a complete headache. quick 9 holes with your mate and you are stuck signing cards and handing them in.

''I shouldn't have tried that super duper flop shot on the 3rd that cost me a quadruple bogey''

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Easier than me typing it all out, I'm thinking this is what you meant.

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Q. What scores are acceptable for handicap posting purposes?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]
A. Almost all scores are acceptable because of the basic premise of the USGA Handicap Systemâ„¢ which states that every player will try to make the best score at each hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for peer review. Therefore, all of the following are acceptable scores:

• When at least seven holes are played (7-12 holes are posted as a 9-hole score; 13 or more are posted as an 18-hole score)
• Scores on all courses with a valid Course Ratingâ„¢ and Slope Rating®
• Scores in all forms of competition: match play, stroke play, and team competitions where each player play their own ball
• Scores made under The Rules Of Golf
• Scores played under the local rule of “preferred lies”
• Scores made in an area observing an active season

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I think the slope system would be fine, but any handicapping system that means you can play 13 holes and submit your card assuming you played to your handicap for the remaining 5 holes and takes scores from matchplay and betterball is flawed in my book.

I'm not saying CONGU is perfect but I don't think we need to change.

 

[Ethan]

Is it true that you basically hand in all cards including social games?

That is a different question and not a feature of course rating/slope per se.

Slope and course ratings are really just another way to allow handicaps to translate between courses. Whether they give more 'accurate' handicaps or not is a matter of debate. My impression is that players in the US with whom I have played sometimes have handicaps lower than they would get in the UK. You also read on fora of players, for example, with a USGA 1 or 2 handicap who have only ever shot in the 60s once or twice at their home course. That would be very unusual for a UK 1 or 2 handicapper.

 

[Foxholer]

I think the slope system would be fine, but any handicapping system that means you can play 13 holes and submit your card assuming you played to your handicap for the remaining 5 holes and takes scores from matchplay and betterball is flawed in my book.

I'm not saying CONGU is perfect but I don't think we need to change.

Er. 9 hole comps/cards do exactly that!

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with the CONGU system.

Coach, does slope take into effect conditions on the day. For example. CONGU allows for a change in CSS based on the performance of the field. Ie if everyone plays poorly perhaps due to poor weather conditions, the CSS will rise and reflect this.

Indeed nothing actually wrong with the system - except universal/worlwide use!

No it doesn't have a CSS built in - though, because of the way it's calculated, arguably doesn't need one. It comes up with an Index which is then applied on a sliding scale (the slope) against whatever 'Slope Rating' the course to be played has (in addition to the Course Rating),

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Er. 9 hole comps/cards do exactly that!

But how many comps are run over 9 holes.

EDIT: Also, a 9 hole organised comp is slightly different to stopping after 13 holes and handing your card in.