Unplayable rule

[guest100718]

So if I'm playing in the same group as you and I hit one in the rubbish and I say to you ''that's lost, I'll hit another one'',
you wouldn't understand what I meant?

you can say what you liike.

What if I reply that I can see your ball?

you saying its lost doesnt make it so.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

you can say what you liike.

:thup: because it actually does matter

 

[backwoodsman]

So if I'm playing in the same group as you and I hit one in the rubbish and I say to you ''tthat's lost, I'll hit another one'',
you wouldn't understand what I meant?

We could have a pretty shrewd guess. But ...

Even if you said "that's lost, it's waist high nettles, absolutely no chance of me going in there to look, I'm going to take stroke & distance" - leaving no doubt of your intention - then what if, while you took a pace or two towards your bag to get your next ball, someone popped out the bushes, pointed & shouted back, "it's just here mate". What validity of ones words then?

 

[AlanMills]

You can declare the ball unplayable whilst it sits in the middle of the green 18 inches from the pin, if you so wish - I've never done so Myself!

I actually came a cross a scenario where this is the best course of action. Consider the scenario where you hit the ball onto the green, mark it, pick it up and clean it and then put it in your pocket only to then realise your provisional ball is in there also and they are the same and you literally can't tell which is which. normally it's be a lost ball right with two shot penalty. Declare your ball on the green as unplayable and, along with only a one shot penalty, you get to replace your ball for another one. Save a shot!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I actually came a cross a scenario where this is the best course of action. Consider the scenario where you hit the ball onto the green, mark it, pick it up and clean it and then put it in your pocket only to then realise your provisional ball is in there also and they are the same and you literally can't tell which is which. normally it's be a lost ball right with two shot penalty. Declare your ball on the green as unplayable and, along with only a one shot penalty, you get to replace your ball for another one. Save a shot!

Neat scenario - though I'd have thought you could show that there was reasonable certainty that one of the balls was the ball you were playing. I think of a scenario where you hit your ball into the rough and you find two balls in very close proximity - either of which could reasonably be your ball. But they are the same ball, and they have similar if not identical, 'player marks'. I am not sure that you could in fairness be penalised - for what control could you have on the marking on the other ball. I am not sure which one you would play though.

 

[rulefan]

Neat scenario - though I'd have thought you could show that there was reasonable certainty that one of the balls was the ball you were playing. I think of a scenario where you hit your ball into the rough and you find two balls in very close proximity - either of which could reasonably be your ball. But they are the same ball, and they have similar if not identical, 'player marks'. I am not sure that you could in fairness be penalised - for what control could you have on the marking on the other ball. I am not sure which one you would play though.

27/10 Player Unable to Distinguish His Ball from Another Ball

Q.A and B hit their tee shots into the same area. Both balls were found but, because A and B were playing identical balls and neither had put an identification mark on his ball, they could not determine which ball was A's and which was B's. What is the ruling?

A.Since neither player could identify a ball as his ball, both balls were lost - see Definition of "Lost Ball."

 

[rulie]

27/10 Player Unable to Distinguish His Ball from Another Ball

Q.A and B hit their tee shots into the same area. Both balls were found but, because A and B were playing identical balls and neither had put an identification mark on his ball, they could not determine which ball was A's and which was B's. What is the ruling?

A.Since neither player could identify a ball as his ball, both balls were lost - see Definition of "Lost Ball."

Hypo alert! Suppose that the two balls were found within two club lengths of each other. Could the player(s) deem their original unplayable and drop at a spot that is within two club lengths of each ball, ie, satisfies the requirement of 28c for both?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

27/10 Player Unable to Distinguish His Ball from Another Ball

Q.A and B hit their tee shots into the same area. Both balls were found but, because A and B were playing identical balls and neither had put an identification mark on his ball, they could not determine which ball was A's and which was B's. What is the ruling?

A.Since neither player could identify a ball as his ball, both balls were lost - see Definition of "Lost Ball."

But what if player A had put an identification mark on his ball and the other ball had the same identifying mark - but was a ball not hit by any of the players PPs? For the player to be penalised seems very harsh and unfair.

 

[pogle]

Hypo alert! Suppose that the two balls were found within two club lengths of each other. Could the player(s) deem their original unplayable and drop at a spot that is within two club lengths of each ball, ie, satisfies the requirement of 28c for both?

Since the Decision says that both balls are lost, the only rule you can proceed under is 27-1, i.e. stroke and distance, I would suggest hte answer to your hypo is no.

 

[rulefan]

But what if player A had put an identification mark on his ball and the other ball had the same identifying mark - but was a ball not hit by any of the players PPs? For the player to be penalised seems very harsh and unfair.

Who decreed that golf or life was fair?

If the player can't identify his ball, it is lost.

Unless 27/11 situation 4 applies.
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-27,d27-11

But in this case we know that only one of the balls is in play. That ball has to be identified.

However a modification to solution 4 may be appropriate. But I wouldn't favour it.

One could argue that both balls are lost. However, it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee, playing 5, when the player has found both balls but does not know which is the original and which the foundling. Accordingly, the player must select one of the balls, treat it as his second ball with S&D and abandon the other.


Rant alert! Players should not mark their ball in a 'common' way (eg three red or black dots on a Titleist ball - probably 50% of the balls out on a golf course)

 

[oltimer]

Not unplayable in a Water Haz, I was under the impression that whilst the same unplayable drop options apply to a lat Wat Haz they do not apply to a Water Haz for once having hit your ball into such hazard you have to keep the point of entry between you and the flag when dropping, two club lengths in any direction could in some case remove the necessity of having to play over the water haz.

 

[duncan mackie]

Not unplayable in a Water Haz, I was under the impression that whilst the same unplayable drop options apply to a lat Wat Haz they do not apply to a Water Haz for once having hit your ball into such hazard you have to keep the point of entry between you and the flag when dropping, two club lengths in any direction could in some case remove the necessity of having to play over the water haz.

The relief options for lateral water hazards and water hazards are different, and neither are a match cor those under the unplayable ball rule (28). The reason you cannot declare a ball unplayable and proceed under the options of rule 28 when you are in either of them is because rule 28 specifically says you can't.

 

[rulefan]

Not unplayable in a Water Haz, I was under the impression that whilst the same unplayable drop options apply to a lat Wat Haz they do not apply to a Water Haz for once having hit your ball into such hazard you have to keep the point of entry between you and the flag when dropping, two club lengths in any direction could in some case remove the necessity of having to play over the water haz.

The difference between the options available for relief from a lateral water hazard and an unplayable it that in the former the two clublengths must be measured from the last point of entry, whereas the in the latter case the measure is from the ball itself.

 

[oltimer]

Must make myself clearer next time, am aware of the different options but was trying to find out why 2 club lengths sideways was not allowed from a wat/haz, cannot think of any other pen drop that does not include a 1 or 2 club length option.
There is a reason for every rule in the book and a reason when an option is not permitted.
Does anyone know the reason why 2 club lengths in any direction not nearer is not an option for a Water haz.

 

[rulefan]

Must make myself clearer next time, am aware of the different options but was trying to find out why 2 club lengths sideways was not allowed from a wat/haz, cannot think of any other pen drop that does not include a 1 or 2 club length option.
There is a reason for every rule in the book and a reason when an option is not permitted.
Does anyone know the reason why 2 club lengths in any direction not nearer is not an option for a Water haz.

The intention is that the water hazard has to be re-negotiated by playing over it. The LWH is the exception because of what it says in the definition.

" ...... it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard "

The 2cl for a WH is effectively embraced by the 'back along the line' option

You will have noted that a bunker still has to be 'take on' when 2cl is chosen.

 

[oltimer]

Thank you ! you have confirmed what I thought - that a sideways drop could possibly take the w/haz out of play thus why it is not an option.

 

[rulefan]

Thank you ! you have confirmed what I thought - that a sideways drop could possibly take the w/haz out of play thus why it is not an option.

Exactly