Unplayable lie. Is it acceptable or frowned upon?

[Crow]

I also said that a ball can be declared "lost" at any time, even if it's in the middle of the fairway. This again was disputed by the senior member and the secretary.

Not actually true, you can't "declare" a ball lost at any time, even if you can't see it.

If you say the ball is lost and go back to play under penalty of stroke and disctance, if someone then finds your ball within the time limit and before you've put another ball into play then you must proceed with the original ball.

But that's not to stop you then declaring your original ball once found unpalyable and going back to play under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

[Andy808]

You can call a ball unplayable at any time and it is your decision. You then have three options with a one shot penalty:

Replay the ball from where it was last hit with a one shot penalty.

Play the ball from two clubs lengths from the point it lies. No nearer the pin.

Play the ball on a line between where it lies an the pin, at any distance back, no nearer the pin.

I am not clear if you play the ball back at the teeing area if you can re-tee the ball. Maybe someone can clarify this point.

As some clubs demand that you use a tee peg on the teeing area I would say that you could.

 

[Crow]

I am not clear if you play the ball back at the teeing area if you can re-tee the ball. Maybe someone can clarify this point.

As long as the shot from the teeing area was a "teed" shot, for example if your first shot had knocked the ball off the tee but it was still on the teeing area and your second put you into an unplayable lie, then you could go back to the teeing area but couldn't tee the ball up.

 

[Andy808]

Not actually true, you can't "declare" a ball lost at any time, even if you can't see it.

If you say the ball is lost and go back to play under penalty of stroke and disctance, if someone then finds your ball within the time limit and before you've put another ball into play then you must proceed with the original ball.

But that's not to stop you then declaring your original ball once found unpalyable and going back to play under penalty of stroke and distance.

But if you hit a second ball with penalty of stroke and distance without declaring a provisional ball then the first ball is declared lost and out of play whether the first ball is found or not.
It could be in the middle of the fairway but it's still "lost" as another ball is in play. If you know a ball is going to be in so much trouble your going to struggle to get onto the fairway for a few shots your not going to go looking for it in the first place and your not going to call a provisional ball either.

 

[Crow]

But if you hit a second ball with penalty of stroke and distance without declaring a provisional ball then the first ball is declared lost and out of play whether the first ball is found or not.
It could be in the middle of the fairway but it's still "lost" as another ball is in play. If you know a ball is going to be in so much trouble your going to struggle to get onto the fairway for a few shots your not going to go looking for it in the first place and your not going to call a provisional ball either.

I know what you're saying but that's decalring the ball unplayable or playing under penalty of stroke and distance, the penalty is the same but the ball isn't "lost" according to the rules until the next ball is in play or the 5 minutes has expired.

 

[MadAdey]

Makes a change to hear of a high handicapper using a bit of common sense. It does make me laugh when you see people trying to hack balls out from under bushes etc, instead of just taking a drop.

 

[Foxholer]

On a similar note we had a discussion at the club house about calling a ball "lost".
It all came about when one of our senior members said that someone got DQ'ed from a comp for not playing a provisional ball. I said you can't be DQ'ed for not playing a provisional and that he had to have played the wrong ball afterwards and not corrected his mistake before the next tee. To say a heated discussion ensued is an understatement to the point the secretary, who was listening, said I had to be wrong as the other member had been playing for years so MUST know the rules better than me.
I tried, to no avail, that if he had declared the first ball "lost" then played a second then his first ball, whether found or not, is no longer in play. IF he had declared the second ball a provisional then the first ball would have been back in play when found without penalty. I also said that a ball can be declared "lost" at any time, even if it's in the middle of the fairway. This again was disputed by the senior member and the secretary.

Sometimes it's not how long you've been playing but how well you have read and understand the rules that is important. I spend a lot of time reading the rule book, it's very therapeutic for helping me get off to sleep, and I think it's important to know the rules as well as you can for what ever game you play.

There are a few peculiar pieces of logic in here - and your other one about 'declaring' a ball lost.

Certainly, just because someone has been playing a long time, it doesn't automatically mean they know the rules - in fact it often means the opposite as they are updated every 4 years these days.

There is no such thing these days as 'declaring a ball lost'. That ability was only in the rules from 1956 and removed in 1964. A ball becomes (or is deemed) lost by events - after more than 5 mins searching, after putting another ball into play (there's a few reasons why this might happen and a couple may not involve a penalty) or playing the provisional ball from nearer the hole than the original.

I can imagine some circumstances where a player could be DQ-ed 'because he hadn't played a Provisional'. If he expected to find his ball, so didn't announce and play a Provisional, then couldn't find his ball and couldn't be bothered to return to the tee and play another (his only other option) then any further play would result in a DQ.

As for declaring a 'playable' ball unplayable, it's perfectly reasonable to do so and quite deliberately permitted under the rules. Some folk believe it to be 'against the spirit of the rules' or 'bad form' but that's poppycock imo. The rules state that the player can declare his ball unplayable at any time (apart from when it is in a water hazard, when other rules apply), but there's penalty for doing it - end of!

 

[Colin L]

As long as the shot from the teeing area was a "teed" shot, for example if your first shot had knocked the ball off the tee but it was still on the teeing area and your second put you into an unplayable lie, then you could go back to the teeing area but couldn't tee the ball up.

Think again?

Rule 20-5
When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows:

(a) On the Teeing Ground: The ball to be played must be played from within the teeing ground. It may be played from anywhere within the teeing ground and may be teed .........

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ach - the scratch golf has clearly had some of his sense scratched out. I recently putted a fast tricky downhill 6 footer off the green - ended up 30 yds away down a big slope leaving me a horrid shot back. So deciding I would do very well to get up and down in three, I took stroke and distance and replaced it back on the green from whence I had started and two putted. Got 'funny' looks and I'm not sure what my PPs actually thought - but hey - did I really care?

 

[CMAC]

Think again?

Rule 20-5
When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows:

(a) On the Teeing Ground: The ball to be played must be played from within the teeing ground. It may be played from anywhere within the teeing ground and may be teed .........

even if it's his 3rd shot or higher and the ball is on the tee area for that hole you are allowed to Tee it up? just clarifying as it's an interesting point

 

[guest100718]

I had two that I could have called unplayable today but the line back would have had me OOB before I found anything better so I was forced to play them as they were.
On a similar note we had a discussion at the club house about calling a ball "lost".
It all came about when one of our senior members said that someone got DQ'ed from a comp for not playing a provisional ball. I said you can't be DQ'ed for not playing a provisional and that he had to have played the wrong ball afterwards and not corrected his mistake before the next tee. To say a heated discussion ensued is an understatement to the point the secretary, who was listening, said I had to be wrong as the other member had been playing for years so MUST know the rules better than me.
I tried, to no avail, that if he had declared the first ball "lost" then played a second then his first ball, whether found or not, is no longer in play. IF he had declared the second ball a provisional then the first ball would have been back in play when found without penalty. I also said that a ball can be declared "lost" at any time, even if it's in the middle of the fairway. This again was disputed by the senior member and the secretary.

Sometimes it's not how long you've been playing but how well you have read and understand the rules that is important. I spend a lot of time reading the rule book, it's very therapeutic for helping me get off to sleep, and I think it's important to know the rules as well as you can for what ever game you play.

You can NEVER declare a ball lost.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You can NEVER declare a ball lost.

but from the middle of the fairway it can be declared unplayable.

 

[gdc]

Later in the round, I found myself in a similar if not worse position. Bearing in mind the scratch players reaction earlier, I asked him whether declaring an unplayable lie was bad form and he said it was.

OMG I have seriously never heard such total **** in all my life.
You can declare an unplayable any time you like and you get the penalty that goes with it. In fact this scratch golfer should be applauding the fact you know your own limits - not many golfers do!

 

[Ian_S]

So you don't play an unplayable, duff it trying to move the ball and now your stuffed as you can't use the option of playing from your last place? Some low handicappers can be knobs!

Exactly. Just do a quick YouTube for Kevin Na taking 16 on a hole. He tried to hack out when he should have taken unplayable.

Ignore the scratch golfer. Nothing wrong, ever, with declaring it unplayable, even if physically it isn't. Suppose your ball is up against a tree just off the fairway. The only shot you have is chipping out sideways. If two club lengths is enough to get you on the fairway, take an unplayable and drop it on it. No sense risking anything you don't need to.

 

[Colin L]

even if it's his 3rd shot or higher and the ball is on the tee area for that hole you are allowed to Tee it up? just clarifying as it's an interesting point

As you see, there's nothing in the rule to limit what number of stroke you are playing.

 

[stevelev]

I know what you're saying but that's decalring the ball unplayable or playing under penalty of stroke and distance, the penalty is the same but the ball isn't "lost" according to the rules until the next ball is in play or the 5 minutes has expired.

As soon as another ball is played the 'lost' ball is just that The ball played is the 'ball in play' the five minutes makes no difference.

27-1/2.3 Original Ball Found Within Five-Minute Search Period After Another Ball Dropped; Original Ball Played:
In Decision 27-1/2, the player was required to proceed with the dropped ball. What would be the ruling if the player continues play with the original ball?
As the original ball is no longer the player’s ball in play, it is a wrong ball, and the provisions of Rule 15-3 apply.

 

[USER1999]

Makes a change to hear of a high handicapper using a bit of common sense. It does make me laugh when you see people trying to hack balls out from under bushes etc, instead of just taking a drop.

This is so funny.

I played with a guy in the last medal at my place. He had an un playable, pretty much. He could have dropped under penalty, two club lengths sideways, which gave him a shot to the green. He chose to play out backwards, which wasn't easy, he hit a miracle shot, 45 yards backwards into deep rough. daft isn't the word.

 

[MadAdey]

This is so funny.

I played with a guy in the last medal at my place. He had an un playable, pretty much. He could have dropped under penalty, two club lengths sideways, which gave him a shot to the green. He chose to play out backwards, which wasn't easy, he hit a miracle shot, 45 yards backwards into deep rough. daft isn't the word.

I have never understood and never why people are frightened to take a drop when clearly it is the only choice.

 

[cookelad]

As you see, there's nothing in the rule to limit what number of stroke you are playing.

I read the original question as the player duffs/tops his tee shot a few feet but the ball remains on the teeing ground, the player then proceeds to hit their 2nd shot into a lost ball situation in this case the player wouldn't be allowed to tee their ball up when returning to the spot where the 2nd shot was played to play their 4th shot.

Also in reply to the OP weren't the pro's using the same ruling at one of the Opens a few years back, I can't remember if it was The U.S. or Proper Open.

 

[Ethan]

Scratch players may know more about the rules, but often don't. Likewise handicap secretaries and club captains. If in doubt, check the rule book in your bag, or the local rules on the card.

What do you mean you don't carry one? You should.

The player can declare an unplayable anywhere he likes, without giving and reason of justification, and he would be a fool not to do so if it is in his advantage. Sometimes the rules of golf are arbitrary and a bit stupid. Occasionally, they give you a good break. If so, grab it and remember it next time the more usual bad break happens.