Unplayable ball rule 28

[chrisd]

You can declare a ball unplayable sitting on the green if you so wish and play from where you last hit!

 

[Shaunmg]

Thanks, got it. Clear as mud

 

[JCW]

You should have hit the second ball and not called it a provisional

Call it what then if its not a provisional , a mulligan ?

 

[Val]

Call it what then if its not a provisional , a mulligan ?

Call it nothing or anything you like just not a provisional. Once you hit it, it's the ball in play

 

[guest100718]

No, can you explain why im wrong.

Someone already has.

 

[guest100718]

Depending on exactly what you said, you may in trouble for giving advice.

Oh for sure. It was just a knock about.

 

[rulefan]

Oh for sure. It was just a knock about.

You should know better. Now you are a contributor to a Rules forum you have to play by them all, all the time

 

[SocketRocket]

Oh for sure. It was just a knock about.

And what rules are used in 'Knock about' Golf?

 

[Robobum]

Save the hassle and just declare it lost! Easy

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

Save the hassle and just declare it lost! Easy

For the umpteenth time: You can`t declare a ball lost!!!

 

[guest100718]

And what rules are used in 'Knock about' Golf?

zzzzzzzz

 

[Slab]

........ But something not otherwise covered (but the 20-5 does)...Because you are playing from the Tee, you can play from anywhere in the 'teeing ground' and may (or need not) be tee-ed. If tee-ed, it can be at a different height to before - something there is occasional mythical confusion about.

Thanks for this bit, I was going to post asking about the 'as near as possible...' when still on teeing ground

 

[Val]

For the umpteenth time: You can`t declare a ball lost!!!

But we've now established you can declare it unplayable without finding it which is effectively the same thing using different terminology.

Sticking a second ball into play without declaring it as a provisional is effectively declaring a ball lost.

 

[duncan mackie]

But we've now established you can declare it unplayable without finding it which is effectively the same thing using different terminology.

Sticking a second ball into play without declaring it as a provisional is effectively declaring a ball lost.

as threads like this illustrate, it's not being unnecessarily pedantic to point out that by playing another ball under stroke and distance the original ball is lost under the rules - no declaring about it..

the whole point about the concept of not being able to declare a ball lost is that by standing there and stating 'that's lost' you haven't done anything; it's not lost because of your statement and, if found before you put another ball in play under the rules, or time expires, then you have to continue with it. Should you then choose to declare it unplayable then you have the options under 28, which include going back and playing again under stroke and distance.

as perfectly illustrated by the responses on this thread, it's when a provisional ball enters the equation that the need for clarity becomes important.

 

[Colin L]

But we've now established you can declare it unplayable without finding it which is effectively the same thing using different terminology.

No it isn't. Duncan has covered why but here's the same in a different way. Maybe between us we'll make it clearer!

Maybe you should re-read how, within the Rules, a ball is lost. Take another look at the precise circumstances detailed in the Definition. Maybe you missed what I said earlier that the unseen ball that you deemed unplayable is not in this context lost until you put another ball into play. Up to that point the original ball is in play whether you have seen it or not. You could change your mind , find it in good time and play it - and playing it includes the possibility of deeming it unplayable but this time having all three options under Rule 28 available to you.

 

[Val]

No it isn't. Duncan has covered why but here's the same in a different way. Maybe between us we'll make it clearer!

Maybe you should re-read how, within the Rules, a ball is lost. Take another look at the precise circumstances detailed in the Definition. Maybe you missed what I said earlier that the unseen ball that you deemed unplayable is not in this context lost until you put another ball into play. Up to that point the original ball is in play whether you have seen it or not. You could change your mind , find it in good time and play it - and playing it includes the possibility of deeming it unplayable but this time having all three options under Rule 28 available to you.

I understand exactly what you say Colin and can't disagree with any of it and likewise what Duncan has just posted.

All I got wrong here as far as im concerned was the process of declaring a ball unplayable without finding it. I have in the past like many others I suppose stuck a ball into knee deep rough and then stuck a second ball in play without using the phrase provisional ball effectively by that action the original ball is lost, I was unaware that I was proceeding under rule 28 unplayable ball at the time. My actions weren't wrong I suppose but my explanation of it would have been.

 

[rulefan]

I was unaware that I was proceeding under rule 28 unplayable ball at the time.

You were actually (literally) proceeding under 27-1a. You will see that 28a simply refers you to 27-1a

27-1a At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.

28a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played

 

[Val]

You were actually (literally) proceeding under 27-1a. You will see that 28a simply refers you to 27-1a

27-1a At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.

28a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played

So whatever the numbers what i was doing was right which is the main thing.

 

[Robobum]

For the umpteenth time: You can`t declare a ball lost!!!

.

 

[Foxholer]

So whatever the numbers what i was doing was right which is the main thing.

Indeed! And the effect/Penalty involved is the same too.

I actually believe The Stroke and Distance clause 27-1a would be better positioned as a named part of Rule 13 - Play The Ball As It Lies; Stroke and Distance rather than an unnamed part of Rule 27 Ball Lost or Out of Bounds; Provisional Ball (admittedly where most of its application lies).