Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
Decision 28/1 says if you want to proceed under 28b or 28c then you need to identify your ball.
Unplayable ball rule 28
- Thread starter Shaunmg
- Start date
Decision 28/1 says if you want to proceed under 28b or 28c then you need to identify your ball.
G
guest100718
Guest
I had this exact scenario recently.my friend topped his drive about 30 yards into the rough that is in front of the tee. He declared it unplayable, re teed it and off we went, collecting the other ball on the way. At no point did he venture forward to retrieve the original ball prior to re teeing. My knowledge of the rules suggests that this perfectly acceptable. But if I am wrong then i'll tell him not to do it next time.
it was me who suggested it as the rough is deep and he would have best had a hack that went another 10 yards.
I'll be interested to hear what the rule gurus say when they arrive..
it was me who suggested it as the rough is deep and he would have best had a hack that went another 10 yards.
I'll be interested to hear what the rule gurus say when they arrive..
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Val
Ryder Cup Winner
If you play a second ball without declaring it as a provisional then it automatically becomes the ball in play regardless of whether the original ball is in rough, fairway or anywhere but in the hole
Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
thats perfectly acceptable under rule 28a.:thup:
Foxholer
Blackballed
More to the point....
Where in the Rule did it say that you must find it! And without that requirement, it means that you don't have to find it.
But, this clause should placate your need....
'The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.'
Btw. The Water Hazard Role (26) also specifically refers to being able to use Stroke and Distance (27-1) too.
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Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
You can declare a ball unplayable at any time you like. It can be sitting right in front of you, it can be 200 yards away on a different fairway. Once declared unplayable and you've put another ball into play, the original is not in play - you can pick it up or leave it where it is.
Just say your ball hits a tree and rebounds 100 yards into deep rough. It may well be "lost" but you probably don't want to find it - declare it unplayable, drop another under penalty and play on....there's no need to find it.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
If you don't find it then it's lost not unplayable
JCW
Journeyman Pro
A few years ago on the 10th tee at Knigton Heath in a medal i hooked my tee shot left into the rubbish , so i played a prov , 3 off the tee and had no intention off looking for the 1st ball but my FC did and he found it so I had to declare it unplayable and go from there , the prov that i hit way down the fairway was no longer in play . I should have declared the 1st ball lost and played 3 off the tee , any thoughts on this anyone ?
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
I get this and agree with it all but I don't agree you declare unplayable without finding it, maybe in being pedantic over being lost or unplayable where you stick a second ball in play from the original spot under both rules
Foxholer
Blackballed
You can't 'declare a ball lost' under the Rules. It is deemed lost by your (in)action! Simply by not declaring your 2nd a Provisional Ball, that one becomes the ball in play and the original is deemed lost.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
You should have hit the second ball and not called it a provisional
Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
The ball is deemed unplayable before looking for it, you proceed under 28a and play another ball under stroke and distance which automatically deems your original ball as lost (as per the definition).
Foxholer
Blackballed
<pedant mode - in line with the issue>
Close!
But you are actually 'playing under Stroke and Distance' - something you can always do and specifically referenced in the Unplayable, Water Hazard and Ball Lost or OOB Rule.
</pedant mode - in line with the issue>
The original Ball is only deemed Lost once you have put the 2nd ball into play.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Which is what I'm saying other than being pedantic over the terms lost and unplayable
Colin L
Tour Winner
Val. I admire your persistence, but take a look at Decision 28/1 where you will find what you asked for - i.e. where in the Rules it says you can deem a ball unplayable without finding it. But as has been said, you only have the option of stroke and distance for an unplayable ball you cannot see. http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-28/#d28-1
Also you need to consider that in the OP's description of events, his original ball is not lost until he he puts the other ball into play. Standing on the tee looking in dismay at a gorse bush your ball disappeared into does not render the ball lost just because you cannot see it.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Depending on exactly what you said, you may in trouble for giving advice.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
So pedantics aside we are effectively doing the same thing
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yes. The effect is identical - as I posted ('achieves the same thing') in Post 14.
Where we differ is on the need to find a ball in order to 'declare it unplayable'. There is no such need in the Rules. R28a specifically allows the player to act as per 27-1 (which references 20-5).
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
So in essence I have the rule correct but definitions wrong as I was under the impression you had to find the ball to declare it wrong, effectively declaring a ball unplayable without finding it is declaring it lost which is something we know can't be done.
Jesus no wonder these threads grow arms and legs
Jesus no wonder these threads grow arms and legs
Foxholer
Blackballed
And why/how so many rules myths arise!
The fact that there was a post-round discussion, with a couple of errors - the 'need' to retrieve the original ball is a new one! - demonstrates it's a pretty universal phenomenon!
