Two-shot penalty - fair enough?

[jim8flog]

I thought they'd changed the rules to remove trial by TV?

Two things changed

They would not accept viewers watching on the TV pointing out a rules infringement and they would not accept the infringement could only be seen with the use of ultra HD slo-mo video.

What happened there could clearly be seen with normal video.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Has he broken the rule? Yes he has.

Has he gained an advantage? I don't believe he has.

Is it fair enough? In the letter of the law, yes, in the spirit of the game, no. Unfortunately we are playing letter which means he will get a 2 shot penalty and someone who carves it 50 yards off line will get a free drop because of a scoreboard. Them's the rules.

 

[harpo_72]

Are you not using preferred lies at present?

We need the like of @rulefan to give their expert opinion.

Yes but come summer they will carry on grounding in bunkers though

 

[DanFST]

As long as every other bunker shot is scrutinised as much, no issue.

If they aren't, it's a overzealous official that needs to wind down.

 

[KenL]

Yes but come summer they will carry on grounding in bunkers though

Ah, OK. Needs pointing out then.

 

[garyinderry]

I'm not one bit bothered about this penalty.

It's not hard to keep the club well clear of the sand.

If you want to bring the club in tight to the ball in the hazard you should make sure not to disturb the sand.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm not one bit bothered about this penalty.

It's not hard to keep the club well clear of the sand.

If you want to bring the club in tight to the ball in the hazard you should make sure not to disturb the sand.

I get what you are saying, but stood up over the ball he or anyone else may believe they are clear, that camera angle is not the angle the player will see, many more may of unknowingly done the same, he wouldn’t of felt the sand he touched.

 

[DanFST]

I'm not one bit bothered about this penalty.

It's not hard to keep the club well clear of the sand.

If you want to bring the club in tight to the ball in the hazard you should make sure not to disturb the sand.

You will have done it without knowing, without a doubt.

 

[garyinderry]

I get what you are saying, but stood up over the ball he or anyone else may believe they are clear, that camera angle is not the angle the player will see, many more may of unknowingly done the same, he wouldn’t of felt the sand he touched.

What he failed to do was assess the lie correctly. There is quite clearly clumps of fluffy sand behind the ball. You cant quibble when you disturb this sand in attempting to get the club in tight to play a spiny bunker shot.

 

[garyinderry]

You will have done it without knowing, without a doubt.

Maybe so. I certainly wouldn't complain once I was made aware if I was playing on TV.

 

[rulefan]

b. Restrictions on Touching Sand in Bunker

(1) When Touching Sand Results in Penalty. Before making a stroke at a ball in a bunker, a player must not:

• Deliberately touch sand in the bunker with a hand, club, rake or other object to test the condition of the sand to learn information for the next stroke, or
• Touch sand in the bunker with a club:
  • In the area right in front of or right behind the ball (except as allowed under Rule 7.1a in fairly searching for a ball or under Rule 12.2a in removing a loose impediment or movable obstruction),
  • In making a practice swing, or
  • In making the backswing for a stroke.

As an aside Michelle Wie was penalized for a similar incident at Royal Lytham in 2006. I was standing next to the bunker at the time.
https://www.golfchannel.com/article/associated-press/wie-penalized-2-shots-bunker-infringement

 

[Canary Kid]

The penalty was correctly applied according to the rules. However, it is rules like this that perpetuate the stuffy, overly pedantic image of golf that puts many people off.

 

[clubchamp98]

The penalty was correctly applied according to the rules. However, it is rules like this that perpetuate the stuffy, overly pedantic image of golf that puts many people off.

Yes agree
Why have a camera there in the first place ?
To show us how the pros do it ,I get that.
To punish unintended mistakes the game can do without this imo.
But the rule is there so correctly applied.

 

[rulefan]

The penalty was correctly applied according to the rules. However, it is rules like this that perpetuate the stuffy, overly pedantic image of golf that puts many people off.

And if the backswing removed enough sand to improve the stroke how would you rule?

 

[Swango1980]

The penalty was correctly applied according to the rules. However, it is rules like this that perpetuate the stuffy, overly pedantic image of golf that puts many people off.

But surely this what makes golf a "gentleman's" game, and you agree the rule has been broken, then the penalty is 100% fair.

If you start asking subjectivity to be brought into the game, and issue penalties based on whether someone thinks an advantage has been gained or not, then we'll just end up having golfers behaving like footballers. Whinging that the penalty is unfair and harsh.

This thread proves the point.

He was unlucky. He wasn't cheating. But, the rule was broken, the penalty was therefore completely fair.

 

[USER1999]

The thing with the penalty (which I accept) is that there does not appear to be any differential between an accidental movement of sand, which is probably not visible to the player, and blatant cheating by dragging the club back through the sand, optimising the route back to the ball.

 

[Swango1980]

The thing with the penalty (which I accept) is that there does not appear to be any differential between an accidental movement of sand, which is probably not visible to the player, and blatant cheating by dragging the club back through the sand, optimising the route back to the ball.

I would say virtually all penalties ever given out have not been a result of blatant cheating. I'd hope so anyway. Vast majority have been accidental, many the player might even have been unaware of.

 

[rulefan]

The thing with the penalty (which I accept) is that there does not appear to be any differential between an accidental movement of sand, which is probably not visible to the player, and blatant cheating by dragging the club back through the sand, optimising the route back to the ball.

How would you word such a condition of the rule?

 

[USER1999]

I would call it the Patrick Reed clause.

 

[rulefan]

I would call it the Patrick Reed clause.

But what words would you use in the rule?