The Words of Wisdom of Boris Johnson - Foreign Secretary

[Hobbit]

But there will still be checks on vehicles travelling from NI to rUK, because some will contain EU-sourced goods - full or part load - and for Unionists it is that sign of a 'border' that is surely the main issue, as trucks containing NI-only originated goods are held up by checks on other vehicles - or have to demonstrate in some way that they only contain NI-sourced goods.

Apart from that - I do like that Johnson was selling the benefits to NI of full single market access and freedom of movement. Pity the rUK won't have that and so by definition the rUK will be less advantaged...

For a mixed load, yes there will be checks. I have no problem with that. Not sure I agree with you about a line of trucks because the one at the front will be undergoing checks. Do you not think that trucks with EU goods will be directed to a different line, e.g. airport queues that has two lines at passport control? Imagine a queue of trucks with the last few still on the boat, holding up loading for the turnaround - its not going to happen.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Hells Bells it now seems that BoJo cannot even lay a wreath the right way around.

 

[drdel]

Hells Bells it now seems that BoJo cannot even lay a wreath the right way around.

I guess you're not referring to the BBC's 'production' mistake of showing a VT from 2016 ?

 

[woody69]

The checks will be on goods that originated from Ireland, not Northern Ireland. Same going the other way. Goods from the UK will only be subject to checks if their end destination is Ireland. I posted up a link a week or so back with the detail but, as usual, some prefer to ignore the detail, preferring to jump on the bandwagon of hysteria.

Don't get me wrong Hugh, I detest Johnson. He is the UK's version of Trump in so many ways, and not far behind Farage in my eyes, but if we're going to have a proper debate lets keep it to facts, not political soundbites.

I didn't see your link. Can you share it again please, or point me towards it?

Does it say the same as this article https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...radicts-own-cabinet-on-northern-ireland-trade

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For a mixed load, yes there will be checks. I have no problem with that. Not sure I agree with you about a line of trucks because the one at the front will be undergoing checks. Do you not think that trucks with EU goods will be directed to a different line, e.g. airport queues that has two lines at passport control? Imagine a queue of trucks with the last few still on the boat, holding up loading for the turnaround - its not going to happen.

To an extent I don't think that it matter to Unionists how much or how little trucks are held up - the fact is that some trucks will be held up because of NI/rUK border checks. And as it happens neither you or I have any idea what is actually going to happen in respect of disruption - the fact is that the flow between NI and rUK will not be unfettered (def. in law - not influenced or limited by rules, regulations or any other outside influence.)

 

[Hobbit]

To an extent I don't think that it matter to Unionists how much or how little trucks are held up - the fact is that some trucks will be held up because of NI/rUK border checks. And as it happens neither you or I have any idea what is actually going to happen in respect of disruption - the fact is that the flow between NI and rUK will not be unfettered (def. in law - not influenced or limited by rules, regulations or any other outside influence.)

So "neither you nor I have any idea...," and then you go on to say "the fact is that the flow between NI and rUK will not be unfettered..."

Well, do you know or don't you know? Your subconscious bias coming out again? Or you do know? Do you? A barrister would tie you in knots better than any Boy Scout.

BTW, having sent goods to NI in the past, things don't move as smoothly as you may think... thats assuming that you do know what you don't know, maybe

 

[Mudball]

The checks will be on goods that originated from Ireland, not Northern Ireland. Same going the other way. Goods from the UK will only be subject to checks if their end destination is Ireland. I posted up a link a week or so back with the detail but, as usual, some prefer to ignore the detail, preferring to jump on the bandwagon of hysteria.

Don't get me wrong Hugh, I detest Johnson. He is the UK's version of Trump in so many ways, and not far behind Farage in my eyes, but if we're going to have a proper debate lets keep it to facts, not political soundbites.

Wasn’t this originally posted by some business guy from NI on twitter as Bojos response to (I m paraphrasing)’ what forms do we need to fill’ and BJ asked them to bin all forms and then kept blustering thru them.

Also on the other point... IIRC, you will have forms/checks on goods going from GB to NI. If the goods r consumed in NI then no further action (or you get a refund) and if they go on to RoI/EU then you pay for customs et al

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So "neither you nor I have any idea...," and then you go on to say "the fact is that the flow between NI and rUK will not be unfettered..."

Well, do you know or don't you know? Your subconscious bias coming out again? Or you do know? Do you? A barrister would tie you in knots better than any Boy Scout.

BTW, having sent goods to NI in the past, things don't move as smoothly as you may think... thats assuming that you do know what you don't know, maybe

Bri - goods traffic from NI to the rUK will not flow unfettered...because as you agree there must be checks on at least some of the vehicles. That is all I am actually contesting about what Johnson said in his briefing in NI.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well given the press briefing yesterday that didn’t happen as the press walked out, and the ‘no questions’ one today - looks like Cummings is heading down the route with Johnson of making sure that the only words of wisdom we hear from Johnson are delivered by the media outlets friendly to the words...

meanwhile across the pond Trump is looking to ban CNN from his next SotU address.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So "neither you nor I have any idea...," and then you go on to say "the fact is that the flow between NI and rUK will not be unfettered..."

Well, do you know or don't you know? Your subconscious bias coming out again? Or you do know? Do you? A barrister would tie you in knots better than any Boy Scout.

BTW, having sent goods to NI in the past, things don't move as smoothly as you may think... thats assuming that you do know what you don't know, maybe

Looks like this is most certainly going to be true. And may be true in general between the UK and the EU given Goves words of wisdom this morning on the objectives for the trade deal.

 

[Old Skier]

Well given the press briefing yesterday that didn’t happen as the press walked out, and the ‘no questions’ one today - looks like Cummings is heading down the route with Johnson of making sure that the only words of wisdom we hear from Johnson are delivered by the media outlets friendly to the words...

meanwhile across the pond Trump is looking to ban CNN from his next SotU address.

Well you are obviously better informed than the daily politics. According to reporters on that programme the briefing was by top civil servant who made the decision and not any of Boris's paid henchmen but let's not let facts get in the way of one of your posts.

Apparently Mr Starmer also bans areas of the media from his gatherings.

 

[Fade and Die]

Well you are obviously better informed than the daily politics. According to reporters on that programme the briefing was by top civil servant who made the decision and not any of Boris's paid henchmen but let's not let facts get in the way of one of your posts.

Apparently Mr Starmer also bans areas of the media from his gatherings.

Yeah but Rent-a-gob James O Brien said it, so it must be true!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well you are obviously better informed than the daily politics. According to reporters on that programme the briefing was by top civil servant who made the decision and not any of Boris's paid henchmen but let's not let facts get in the way of one of your posts.

Apparently Mr Starmer also bans areas of the media from his gatherings.

Not great by Starmer - but he is not in government and any 'banning' of The Sun from any press briefings he does is to his own determent.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well you are obviously better informed than the daily politics. According to reporters on that programme the briefing was by top civil servant who made the decision and not any of Boris's paid henchmen but let's not let facts get in the way of one of your posts.

Apparently Mr Starmer also bans areas of the media from his gatherings.

OK - in which case it is very easy for Johnson and Cummings to correct that and make sure it doesn't happen again - and to make sure that the press can ask questions...

 

[Old Skier]

Not great by Starmer - but he is not in government and any 'banning' of The Sun from any press briefings he does is to his own determent.

But you said the briefing never happened. Obviously banning anyone fro the briefing is not the way forward but the continued misinformation that you appear to post does you no favours.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But you said the briefing never happened. Obviously banning anyone fro the briefing is not the way forward but the continued misinformation that you appear to post does you know favours.

The Starmer briefing or non-briefing is a side show compared with media control by our government.

 

[drdel]

OK - in which case it is very easy for Johnson and Cummings to correct that and make sure it doesn't happen again - and to make sure that the press can ask questions...

Why?

I believe the 'briefing' was not supposed to be a full on speech. 'Senior' members of the press were invited, some other who were not invited were refused access. The invited guests got juvenile, upset and left as well. A number of the media have been pedalling rather suspect versions of the truth so why not be selective. The 'press' aren't royalty despite them thinking they are.

If you were the chairman of a company, organisation and had arranged a briefing to invited press members would you permit anyone else entrance?

 

[Hobbit]

Looks like this is most certainly going to be true. And may be true in general between the UK and the EU given Goves words of wisdom this morning on the objectives for the trade deal.

Really? And you know that because....? The EU are insisting that the checks be down the Irish Sea, and Johnson has said "no." But you know better do you? The EU have also said that the UK must align its rules but are happy for Canada not to. I wonder what they fear?

I read Varadker's and Barnier's comments yesterday and, personally, I'd tell them to '''''off. Varadker is on a hiding in their upcoming elections and is making the "big I am" noise. Maybe he needs reminding where the majority of Ireland's exports go and where access the majority of the rest of their road traffic goes through to reach the EU.

No doubt you'll do your own Grima Wormtongue touching of forelock to the great EU and tell us all why the UK is despicable country ran by evil tyrants...

 

[Hobbit]

Why?

I believe the 'briefing' was not supposed to be a full on speech. 'Senior' members of the press were invited, some other who were not invited were refused access. The invited guests got juvenile, upset and left as well. A number of the media have been pedalling rather suspect versions of the truth so why not be selective. The 'press' aren't royalty despite them thinking they are.

If you were the chairman of a company, organisation and had arranged a briefing to invited press members would you permit anyone else entrance?

Stop it! You know he'll twist, turn and deflect.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Really? And you know that because....? The EU are insisting that the checks be down the Irish Sea, and Johnson has said "no." But you know better do you? The EU have also said that the UK must align its rules but are happy for Canada not to. I wonder what they fear?

I read Varadker's and Barnier's comments yesterday and, personally, I'd tell them to '''''off. Varadker is on a hiding in their upcoming elections and is making the "big I am" noise. Maybe he needs reminding where the majority of Ireland's exports go and where access the majority of the rest of their road traffic goes through to reach the EU.

No doubt you'll do your own Grima Wormtongue touching of forelock to the great EU and tell us all why the UK is despicable country ran by evil tyrants...

Sorry - I must have misunderstood what the Daily Mail reported about what Gove said...

But he conceded that the UK's plan to diverge from some Brussels rules and regulations would mean the introduction of 'some bureaucratic processes there that aren’t there now'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ts-post-Brexit-trade-EU-NOT-frictionless.html