The Virus anybody else done the maths

[Reemul]

This is what's actually wrong with internet forums IMO.

People make a post, probably quite factual, yet some don't want to face up to it.

What the fella Clive is saying, regardless of how some snowflakes may feel about it, if right, we probably need to face up to a lot more harsher realities than someone posting up stuff like that.

Lets be honest, the world could do with losing a couple of billion people as harsh as that sounds.

That's so absolutely full of crap, it's an embarrassment that anyone in their right mind would put something like that up. That comment is everything that is wrong with society today and a set of people that believe that. I remember someone saying we don't need those 8 million plus people once and doing his best to get rid of them.

I really wonder how your friends, colleagues and family would feel with you suggesting they should all be dead because we don't need them unless you are of course suggesting we lose a few billion it just doesn't actually have an effect on you and yours and we know where that leads.

 

[User20204]

Nonsense, it's facing up to facts, however unpleasant they may be, like it or not.

 

[User20204]

I'll rephrase the world losing a couple of billion, and say, do you think the world would be in a healthier state if there were less people on earth ?

 

[JustOne]

This is what's actually wrong with internet forums IMO.

People make a post, probably quite factual, yet some don't want to face up to it.

What the fella Clive is saying, regardless of how some snowflakes may feel about it, if right, we probably need to face up to a lot more harsher realities than someone posting up stuff like that.

Lets be honest, the world could do with losing a couple of billion people as harsh as that sounds.

There was a guy sunbathing on the beach the other day, I mean how come it's ok for him to do that? frankly I couldn't care less if he gets it. There was some idiots who thought they'd go ahead and have a big house party, frankly I couldn't care less if they get it. There are lots of people that I find I actually couldn't care less about, that knob who scratched my car that time, that guy at school who bullied everyone. How about ANYONE who belongs to ISIS? anyone in prison for rape/murder, any/all drug dealers, anyone in a cartel, 300,000 pedo's.... I reckon there's quite a few (million?) people that I really couldn't care less about, so I totally understand your post.

I don't see Reemul's reference to Hitler as being the same, it's not like this is something you are orchestrating yourself...

The only issue with the 'concept' is that it's unfortunate that you couldn't pick only nasty people in the 'cleansing'. There are however lots of people we could do without.... I mean what exactly do the Kardasians do???

(nb: I would definitely save ANYONE called Roger or anyone who goes by the nickname LEFTIE)

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Having read through Clive’s posts I can see the point he is making.

Historically we have had periodic wars, famine, plague etc which have significantly reduced the world’s population,

The last 70 years has seen relative peace and increases in technology and transport and communication have seen foreign aid being given and countless lives being saved which 150 years ago simply wouldn’t have been - Ethiopia famine - live aid are good examples.

There is also no doubt that the population of the planet is exploding, going from 6 to 8 billion in a very short space of time

So purely from a planet sustainability point of view, the population of the planet is artificially high.

Now don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating that the virus is welcome, I don’t want to get it and I don’t want anyone else to get it.

Clive is not advocating genocide , he is simply making a specific point

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I don't think the UK are trying to hide anything there might have been a better way to collate the overall figures.

According to the FT the true figures are more than double what has been reported.

 

[Hobbit]

This is what's actually wrong with internet forums IMO.

People make a post, probably quite factual, yet some don't want to face up to it.

What the fella Clive is saying, regardless of how some snowflakes may feel about it, if right, we probably need to face up to a lot more harsher realities than someone posting up stuff like that.

Lets be honest, the world could do with losing a couple of billion people as harsh as that sounds.

The cold, harsh reality is more people will die. If the WHO's prediction is proved accurate, 33 million will die - and the world isn't up to 1 million yet. From the WHO's briefing yesterday, "the worst is still to come." A group of scientists have said there are now 33 strains of the virus - make a vaccine to cover 33 different strains, if you can.

The world might be less polluted for a short while but that is the only benefit to the planet.

Will there be less kids scrabbling through the rubbish tips in Nigeria? No, there'll be more because it'll be their parents that are dead. Roll that thought around the world, to the Barios in Brazil, Soweto and the townships in South Africa, and the huge shanty town next to Mumbai airport and on, and on, and on...

Closer to home, what about the half empty Care homes? Will they be forced to close because of lack of clients, and what happens to those elderly residents that get turfed out? But two half empty Care Homes = one full one - sorted, oh apart from those Carers that lose their job. Who do parents get to look after their kids whilst they go to work if their parents are dead? How do they afford childcare?

Where is the market for all the products when the population has shrunk? Factories close? Are all the retailers needed? Shops close? Govt debt spirals because the tax revenue drops off, on top of the repayments for money just borrowed. Tax rises to pay for the debt. You thought austerity was bad, there's a recession just around the corner the like of which no one has ever experienced before.

The harsh reality is that life for those that survive, even in the developed world is going to get very uncomfortable. I can't see a single positive from "the world could do with losing a couple of billion people." But please do enlighten me, it might make me feel better.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I have to laugh at the lazy suggestion some folk have that pensioners do not pay taxes.
I can assure you that is wrong.

 

[rulefan]

According to the FT the true figures are more than double what has been reported.

How do they know?

 

[MegaSteve]

According to the FT the true figures are more than double what has been reported.

Read that there is a recognised world standard in the way deaths are reported in the current circumstances... And, no I can't provide a link for those that think a link is needed as verification... Anyway, again from what I've read/heard no two countries are actually reporting deaths in the same manner... France, for example, is including deaths in care homes... Germany records actual cause of death in a different manner etc... Right now, all I know is every single death is causing hurt... And, I remain unsure if that hurt/pain is fully registering in some places...

 

[Blue in Munich]

Having read through Clive’s posts I can see the point he is making.

Historically we have had periodic wars, famine, plague etc which have significantly reduced the world’s population,

The last 70 years has seen relative peace and increases in technology and transport and communication have seen foreign aid being given and countless lives being saved which 150 years ago simply wouldn’t have been - Ethiopia famine - live aid are good examples.

There is also no doubt that the population of the planet is exploding, going from 6 to 8 billion in a very short space of time

So purely from a planet sustainability point of view, the population of the planet is artificially high.

Now don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating that the virus is welcome, I don’t want to get it and I don’t want anyone else to get it.

Clive is not advocating genocide , he is simply making a specific point

I don't think any of us missed the point that was being made Phil, and I don't think any of us are unaware that overpopulation is, & will continue to be an issue, and one that needs to be addressed.

The problem was with the use of the description "less economically useful"; it was crass, vulgar and downright insulting to a number of groups that fall under the umbrella of that description. Some of those in it are there by misfortune, others are there through choice because the career they have dedicated themselves to is less valued by society than it should be. It was a dreadful choice of words, and rather than accept that, the defence was along the lines of "poor me, they've deliberately misinterpreted my words".

There are times when the best way to move forward is to stick your hands up & say "mea culpa" rather than try to defend the indefensible.

 

[cliveb]

I don't think any of us missed the point that was being made Phil, and I don't think any of us are unaware that overpopulation is, & will continue to be an issue, and one that needs to be addressed.

The problem was with the use of the description "less economically useful"; it was crass, vulgar and downright insulting to a number of groups that fall under the umbrella of that description. Some of those in it are there by misfortune, others are there through choice because the career they have dedicated themselves to is less valued by society than it should be. It was a dreadful choice of words, and rather than accept that, the defence was along the lines of "poor me, they've deliberately misinterpreted my words".

There are times when the best way to move forward is to stick your hands up & say "mea culpa" rather than try to defend the indefensible.

Having already apologised for what I agree was clumsy and insensitive wording in my posts, I had intended to stay out of this thread.
But let me once again apologise. I accept that my choice of words was very ill-judged.

(Incidentally, I'll just point out that as a retired and relatively old person, I myself am in the demographic that you feel I have insulted)

 

[SocketRocket]

Having read through Clive’s posts I can see the point he is making.

Historically we have had periodic wars, famine, plague etc which have significantly reduced the world’s population,

The last 70 years has seen relative peace and increases in technology and transport and communication have seen foreign aid being given and countless lives being saved which 150 years ago simply wouldn’t have been - Ethiopia famine - live aid are good examples.

There is also no doubt that the population of the planet is exploding, going from 6 to 8 billion in a very short space of time

So purely from a planet sustainability point of view, the population of the planet is artificially high.

Now don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating that the virus is welcome, I don’t want to get it and I don’t want anyone else to get it.

Clive is not advocating genocide , he is simply making a specific point

Post #121 is disgraceful and I'm surprised you dont condem it. People here have lost loved ones, some have loved ones seriously ill.

 

[User20204]

Post #121 is disgraceful and I'm surprised you dont condem it. People here have lost loved ones, some have loved ones seriously ill.

I suspect he's replied cause someone (you probably) reported it and he's went back read it in context and has seen it's perfectly relevant.

May be the internet is not for you, you know, where people may have different opinions.

Still waiting on your apology from the link being posted btw

 

[SocketRocket]

I suspect he's replied cause someone (you probably) reported it and he's went back read it in context and has seen it's perfectly relevant.

May be the internet is not for you, you know, where people may have different opinions.

Still waiting on your apology from the link being posted btw

The internet may not be for me if people like you think the death of millions is something to crow about. You disgust me.
Regarding your previous posts on the numbers thread, I've answered that for you but not in the middle of the night when you were posting ?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Post #121 is disgraceful and I'm surprised you dont condem it. People here have lost loved ones, some have loved ones seriously ill.

This thread is about the maths ,statistical and economic side of the Corona effects, which sometimes means looking at the subject matter differently

He was looking at from an economic wealth generating point of view, which while narrow, is within the scope of the thread.

If he had said what he said in the main thread, then that would have been different.

Agree he could have expressed it better

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Socket & Hacker
Wind it in please

 

[Swinglowandslow]

According to the FT the true figures are more than double what has been reported.

Double what? The number of cases of coronavirus in the population?
That is at best, a guesstimated figure.
But is the suggestion(evidence?) of the FT saying that the briefing figures are being deliberately falsely reported for some nefarious reason?
Can you expand?
Which is it? Which is it that you want to promote .?

 

[User62651]

Overpopulation is an odd one, parts of UK are very populated, Netherlands too, way more than China and nearly all of Africa for example, however we have the means to feed ourselves because we have ample rainfall and advanced agriculture that also encourages some decent environmental protections.
I think if you stood every human on earth side by side it would fill the Isle of Man, doesn't seem so bad if you look at a world map and think of it like that.
If humanity can stop exploiting the earth's natural resources and so changing climate in an insatiable need for personal wealth/greed and think collectively to pursue renewables more heavily and share wealth then the world population can still go up ok.
Alas humans are largely short termist and selfish by nature.
Capitalism and greed will do us in if we don't change.

Grow food not lawns.....

.....Right then, off to cut the grass with my old 2 stroke Flymo.

 

[Kellfire]

In terms of space, the entire world’s population could live comfortably in the state of Texas. Overpopulation isn’t an issue if wealth is distributed more evenly.