The Timgolfy Method v The Tiger Method

[granters]

Tiger all the way for me (although "don't call me Timmy" is my all time forum hero/legend).

My argument is that your whole game spreads back from a solid short game.

How many times have you had a round of GREAT putting and came in with a poor score, no matter how badly you hit the long irons?

The driver/3w/hybrid can be left in the bag if you're struggling with them, just give up a little distance. The putter/wedges absolutely cannot.

Put it this way-if you asked any pro to give up a club from the bag, what would it be? I'd argue driver all the way.

A few examples of the sheer importance of the short game compared to the long- Phil Mickelson -wild off the tee, but still one of the all time greats-, John Daly- won the Open with a short game to die for that week, whilst spraying it all ove the place with the driver.

I rest the defence m'lud

 

[Tiger]

I would go with Tims way,hone a good swing on the range and then transfer it to the course.
Tiger your handicap has come down .6 in nearly two years,having played with Tim i can already see single figure potential.
This to me comes back to the natural talent posts,to me it doesnt matter how much dedication you have or what method your using,if you have no natural ability, and the ability to learn you wont get far

That's what I'm talking about. Bare those teeth PJ!

You are right. I have only come down 0.6. But at least I have a handicap. Did you play with Tim off the whites in a medal comp?

Funny you should talk about single figure potential. People say the same about me

 

[Alex1975]

I would go the Tiger way of the two of them because I believe golf is a game of control not distance.

 

[pokerjoke]

I would go with Tims way,hone a good swing on the range and then transfer it to the course.
Tiger your handicap has come down .6 in nearly two years,having played with Tim i can already see single figure potential.
This to me comes back to the natural talent posts,to me it doesnt matter how much dedication you have or what method your using,if you have no natural ability, and the ability to learn you wont get far

That's what I'm talking about. Bare those teeth PJ!

You are right. I have only come down 0.6. But at least I have a handicap. Did you play with Tim off the whites in a medal comp?

Funny you should talk about single figure potential. People say the same about me

I do appreciate you have a handicap and Tim has not,and i do wish he would get one as it would stop some critisism.
I feel he has the potential because he hits a nice ball,however his understanding of the game is poor[at the moment].
With yourself i cant believe your hp is so high with what you are doing,ive never met you so forgive me,but surely your handicap should be lower by now.
Sometimes it does come down to the ability to understand what someone is telling you and then putting it into action.
There are plenty of people on here that have got to single figures in the time its took you to lose .6,there must be a reason for that.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

If you combine both methods, you come up with a workable combination of long game, short game and play

We could call it the " Tiger Tim " Method

Fragger

 

[Mongoose]

Long game every time. Getting on or close to the green every hole gives you the opportunity to score well, and that requires you covering the distance from tee to green without getting into trouble, and doing so consistently. Short game is a recovery shot, if you are having to rely on recovery shots to salvage pars and bogeys then your long game is letting you down. The more greens you hit in regulation the better your scoring will be based over a number of rounds. Greens in reg is what its all about and your long game will largely dictate how many girs per round you hit.

 

[LanDog]

Assumingly you can hit the ball straight-ish and a decent length down the fairway then I think the ability to get up and down for par or bogey is where scores are made. Phil Mickelson was taught to hit the ball hard, go and find it then get the seconnd shot to the hole, and now he is possibly the best short game player in the world.
So every cloud....

 

[richy]

Way of the tiger has a better ring to it than way of the Tim

 

[Philm]

bit of both ofcourse,

your both after the same thing, i suggest a good long game is essential to play at least in the mid teens. and the short game needs sharpening to get lower.

i found the only way to consistantly putt better was to give myself putts at birdie and par. i dont like the pressure of duffing a hybrid barely 180yards of the tee and then missing the green with a long iron and needing to chip close and one putt for a par. the only birdie chance you get with piss long game is short par 3s or chip ins.

also i can steal confidence from the long game and feel confident that if im twenty feet and two putts for par i can do this. but if i sink an unlikely putt from 20feet (after a knobbing it off the tee and thinning it towards the greeen) it doesnt really help when i walk onto the next tee.

Phil

 

[Tiger]

No forgiveness required PJ. I wanted to spark a debate. You are absolutely right. My handicap SHOULD be lower. But my long game is occasionally erratic and costs me massively. Because of circumstances my opportunities to hit the range are limited. This exacerbates my short game focus. I wonder sometimes whether adopting Tims approach would of been more beneficial or if I'm suffering in the short term for long term gain.

Let the debate continue...

 

[Twire]

I think the both of you over analyse instead of just getting out there and playing.

In answer to your question.... hmmm, both are important to practice, but in saying that. I often look after our juniors on the Wednasday night practice and will walk around with them with a pitching wedge or a 9 iron, often on our par 4's I'm on in 1 over reg and even putting with an iron walk off with bogey. Just wish I could do the same in the comps when I have a full bag of clubs.

So make your mind up from that.

 

[pokerjoke]

If your long games erratic surely thats what you should be working on.
As the saying goes work on your weaknesses,hone your strengths[i just made it up].
I vaguely remember your goal was to scratch in 5 years,which you gave up on.
Can i ask what your goal is now?

 

[Tiger]

Not true twire I play loads (well as much as work and family allow) which is about 27 holes per week

 

[Twire]

Not true twire I play loads (well as much as work and family allow) which is about 27 holes per week

You might do now, but that wasn't the case when you started.

 

[Region3]

Am I misunderstanding the question?
Most people seem to be answering "Which is more important to good scores?"

I'm reading it as "Which is best to practice as a total beginner?"

For my own version of the question... If I had only just taken up the game, I'm more likely to get frustrated and give up if I can't get the ball to the green without embarrassing myself. When I started playing all I wanted to do was to hit the ball in the air every time without the thins, fats and air shots.

My vote goes to team Tim.

If however, I was a 28hc and had to score as low as possible in 2 weeks time it would be short game non-stop for a fortnight.

For the long haul learn how to strike the ball well then improve your short game when your tee to green is ok.

 

[Piece]

I haven't read all replies, but here's my opinion.

In general, for beginners, the need for a good short game is less than the need for a long game. As you get better, the important swaps; the short game must get better to turn an average score to a good score.

 

[nowtfancy]

When do you stop being a beginner?!
3 years after going on a course for the first time, and all the way down to 21.5 hcp, i still feel like one most of the time!


Long game all the way.
Its harder to learn consistently to hit the ball 250 (or whatever) than it is to putt relatively straight or dink a chip onto the green.
As you get better the focus turns slowly to short game, when you're looking to shave shots off a round rather than slash them off.

 

[jammydodger]

A beginner needs to be able to get the ball airborne and moving towards the hole. He needs to do this as consistently as possible for a beginner and the more consistent he gets the more chance he has of lowering his scores.

Once you're able to move the ball forward in the air and get to the green in at worst 3 shots then you can start to worry about your short game. No point fannying about learning all the nuances associated with good short game skills if you cant get the ball to the green in the first place.

Your scores will lower automatically with a decent long game before you hit a natural buffer that tells you that you now need a decent short game to go with it.

Thats when your practise needs to change focus towards scoring round the greens whilst keeping your long game ticking over. This will also automatically take you another step lower. Once you have completed both cycles you will have found your natural level of golf.

This level will be different for everyone and some people will be a single figure golfer at this stage and some will be up in the 20's still. It's after this that the really dedicated golfers find the extra 'something' to lower their h/cs. It could be down to great course management , extra lessons on short game , extra practise on putting or driving etc etc. Each person will find a way to lower their scores IF they want to and are willing to work a little harder than they did to get to their 'natural' level.

I have spoken

 

[SatchFan]

For a beginner it would be Tim's method every time for me. Back in the middle ages when I was a junior we had group lessons with the club pro every Saturday morning. It was all to do with grip, stance ,alignment and a full swing with a 5 or 7 iron and the lesson always finished with a long drive contest for a Mars bar. Good ball striking is physically rewarding and great for the ego. I know it's personal preference but I would much rather have the long game more or less sorted before honing my short game. Actually played with a guy the other day who had 29 putts for his round. He went round in 103. I scored 83 with 39 putts. He might have had a putting stroke to die for but he didn't hit a single good shot from tee to green and admitted it wasn't fun playing the way he did.
Clearly I need to use Tiger's method to get my scores down but my playing partner desperately needs Tim's method just to bring some enjoyment into his game.

 

[timgolfy]

Hello everyone. Apologies for taking so long to reply but I was at the range practicing. For clarity, let me state again what the Timgolfy Method is, because folklore tends towards hyperbole.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't stand on the range all day hitting drives. I have done that some days, yes, but as part of a bigger plan. I practice all clubs, even down to PW, 52, 56 and 60 wedges. I practice accuracy as much as distance, but I'll come on to that in a moment.

The way I see low-scoring golf is this: Hitting birdies requires an approach shot which lands within realistic putting distance (the other ways are long putts, which realistically are more about good fortune, and chipping in, which whilst not entirely luck is such a rare occurrence that they cannot be counted on as a favourable route to success. Realistically, the best we can expect when chipping is to get within tap-in distance with a 2 in 10 hole out).

So, the route to sub-par scoring is hitting the GIR and preferably within short putt distance. Parring a hole can be achieved in numerous ways, but an "average" golfer would miss the green, pitch or chip on close to the hole then putt. That's a par, but it's not a particularly convincing par. My take is that to be a scratch/+ golfer your need regular birdies. The player who hits GIR has far more scoring potential than the player who misses.

How do we achieve GIR within putting distance? It's the long game. Leave a measured approach shot, preferably a favourite wedge to get close to the pin, or hit the green anywhere with longer irons. How do we get into a position to hit those shots? Long off the tee. Example: 440 yard par 4. 300 yard drive up the middle and a PW to the pin is the best way. Alternative: 250 yard drive up the middle and 190 shot in. Now what would that 190 shot in be? If the golfer can only drive 250 then he'd probably be looking at a fairway wood to the green. Chances are this would miss, leave a chip and possible putt for par.

So my take on it, as a newcomer to the game, is this. To play birdie golf (which is the only route to scratch+) requires an accurate and powerful long game. Now, power here does not necessarily mean only long with the driver - it means being powerful with all the clubs. Hitting a green with a 7 iron is a lot easier if the ball flies high and lands softly rather than a 4 iron staying low and rolling.

Where does this leave the short game? The short game is obviously important, but only in terms of saving par. No one hits 100% FIR and GIR, and that's where the short game comes in. When someone asks a pro "what is the best thing that a 10 handicapper can do to improve his game", the invariable answer is "improve the short game", because the term "10 handicapper" implies someone who has been playing the game for a long time and has plateud. To improve the long game of such a player would probably require a major swing overhaul, whereas improving the short game is relatively much simply and less stressful on the body. It's more simple technique + lots of experience. Learning the long game is lots of technique and little experience. The easiest route to lower scores for such a player is the short game, but that player’s maximum potential will always be limited by his long game. So, both the long game and short game are required for shooting scratch+ scores, but it’s the long game which provides the scoring potential.

Take, for example, a Player A who hits 6/18 GIR with a handicap of, say, 13. By improving his short game to save par he will get to single figures and may even get to Cat 1. But that will be it. For this player to improve more would require a long-game overhaul taking probably years. He’s attempting to get the last drop of scoring from his limited long game potential.

Now take Player B who has already achieved that swing overhaul. He now hits 13/18 GIR. Even without the short game improvement he will already have the potential for low scores. Add the short game skills as well and he’ll be on his way.

Practicing the short game does nothing to increase potential. Long game gives the potential. Short game maximises that potential.

Personally, I’d rather not even be on the course if my long game didn’t match my expectations (but that probably digresses into other matters of enjoyment and fresh air). I’d rather have nine holes of GIR and par/birdie shooting with nine nightmare holes of mishits, than 18 holes of average.

In summary, the Timgolfy method is: Learn to hit the ball long but on the fairway. Learn to hit the approach irons long but accurately. Concentrate on the long game so as to hit GIR. The rest will come. (This can mostly be achieve on the range).