The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

[Voyager EMH]

I think its more a question of those who are informed and those who arent informed.
Its not just a question of people having their own different views that they have formed themselves, and a resulting debate on who might be right.

Those who follow the distance line are not smarter and did not come up with their position on their own. They have just read or heard what is now solid research that gives a clear answer.
Those not in that camp at the moment just havent read the litterature and up to date info on the topic. And without further info, simply presenting conclusions is never a great way to convince anyone.

I will post some links later, which will be helpful to those unconvinced, so far, that distance is king.

Don't bother.
I can hit my drives as long and as straight as I can, but I am not going to get the dough unless I putt for it on the day.
I've given my anecdote of this experience.
I would like to hear from someone who won a comp with 42 putts, because they hit such marvellous tee shots.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I suspect most people would take that quote to mean putting is more important than driving. And lots of people think that is the case.

Which is what this all encompassing discussion is about.

Then most people are taking the quote to mean something that they want it to mean rather than what it is in reality.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Don't bother.
I can hit my drives as long and as straight as I can, but I am not going to get the dough unless I putt for it on the day.
I've given my anecdote of this experience.
I would like to hear from someone who won a comp with 42 putts, because they hit such marvellous tee shots.

Who made you thread moderator?

You probably won’t find someone who has won a comp with 42 putts. Just as you won’t find someone who hit 10 tee shots OB who has won a comp because their putting made up for it.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Then most people are taking the quote to mean something that they want it to mean rather than what it is in reality.

Which is fine for this discussion.

 

[Voyager EMH]

"Improve your driving for long term and lasting improvements, putt well on the day to win competitions".

 

[Deleted member 29109]

"Improve your driving for long term and lasting improvements, putt well on the day to win competitions".

Sensible advice!

 

[Voyager EMH]

Sensible advice!

It is not advice, it is truth.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Until King Julian says it is the truth. I won't believe it.

That account has kept me thoroughly entertained

 

[Backsticks]

Don't bother.
I can hit my drives as long and as straight as I can, but I am not going to get the dough unless I putt for it on the day.
I've given my anecdote of this experience.
I would like to hear from someone who won a comp with 42 putts, because they hit such marvellous tee shots.

You are asking an impossible question. There wont be such a person. To win, in hc golf, you will be at the best end of your range. That will be low putts.
Distance is about absolute golf score, not winning. 42 putts will always be at the bad end of a range. But the score could still be good. McIlroy could take 42 putts and still beat most of us here.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Yo

You are asking an impossible question. There wont be such a person. To win, in hc golf, you will be at the best end of your range. That will be low putts.
Distance is about absolute golf score, not winning. 42 putts will always be at the bad end of a range. But the score could still be good. McIlroy could take 42 putts and still beat most of us here.

In fewer words, "putt for dough" then.

 

[Backsticks]

In fewer words, "putt for dough" then.

As long as you have the length first, yes.

 

[Voyager EMH]

As long as you have the length first, yes.

Your average length will do on the day. This is reflected in your handicap. Straighter (with your average length) will help more than adding a few yards on the day.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

"Improve your driving for long term and lasting improvements, putt well on the day to win competitions".

That's generally how it works on tour.
The most successful players, over the longer term and consistently, tend to be those with the superior long games.
The weekly winner is normally the one of those players who putts better that week.

 

[Slab]

Folk are generally gonna talk from a personal perspective and which of the two aspects is more important to their game (& therefore will be very unlikely to change their opinion/point of view)

I just looked at my scoring average in relation to par on the Par 5’s, longer Par 4's, in comparison to average scoring on short par 4's and Par 3’s…. I really need to drive it further

 

[RichA]

Folk are generally gonna talk from a personal perspective and which of the two aspects is more important to their game (& therefore will be very unlikely to change their opinion/point of view)

I just looked at my scoring average in relation to par on the Par 5’s, longer Par 4's, in comparison to average scoring on short par 4's and Par 3’s…. I really need to drive it further

Yep. My perspective is that of a bogey golfer on a longish course with small greens.
On a 400 yard par 4, a 220 yard drive leaves a long iron or hybrid for the second shot. A 250 yard drive leaves a mid iron. Statistically, both will miss the green so it's more about my ability making short pitches and chips than driving or putting.
Different golfers, different courses, different priorities.
My best round, by some margin, had hardly any GIR but I kept chipping to a range where I could comfortably hole the putts or avoid 3-putts.

 

[Slab]

Yep. My perspective is that of a bogey golfer on a longish course with small greens.
On a 400 yard par 4, a 220 yard drive leaves a long iron or hybrid for the second shot. A 250 yard drive leaves a mid iron. Statistically, both will miss the green so it's more about my ability making short pitches and chips than driving or putting.
Different golfers, different courses, different priorities.
My best round, by some margin, had hardly any GIR but I kept chipping to a range where I could comfortably hole the putts or avoid 3-putts.

Agree, whereas my 'stock' 2nd shot on longer holes isn't a miss its a 'short' (if & when I can ever get it to reach it may still be a L/R miss, but while its landing short I can't really count it as such)

 

[Bdill93]

Yep. My perspective is that of a bogey golfer on a longish course with small greens.
On a 400 yard par 4, a 220 yard drive leaves a long iron or hybrid for the second shot. A 250 yard drive leaves a mid iron. Statistically, both will miss the green so it's more about my ability making short pitches and chips than driving or putting.
Different golfers, different courses, different priorities.
My best round, by some margin, had hardly any GIR but I kept chipping to a range where I could comfortably hole the putts or avoid 3-putts.

That's the nature of different courses too!

My place has very small greens, 4 of which have 2 tiers. They're hard to hit (and stick) from distance so I end up chipping and putting a lot.

When I play elsewhere I tend to hit more greens in reg but have some massive putts that I'd never have at my home club.

Proximity to the hole might be similar, just the nature of different courses causing different scenarios.

 

[D-S]

Yep. My perspective is that of a bogey golfer on a longish course with small greens.
On a 400 yard par 4, a 220 yard drive leaves a long iron or hybrid for the second shot. A 250 yard drive leaves a mid iron. Statistically, both will miss the green so it's more about my ability making short pitches and chips than driving or putting.
Different golfers, different courses, different priorities.
My best round, by some margin, had hardly any GIR but I kept chipping to a range where I could comfortably hole the putts or avoid 3-putts.

Couldn't agree more. Poor chipping plus frequent 3 putts cost an awful lot more shots than being in the fairway at 220 instead of 240 every day of the week.

 

[sweaty sock]

That's generally how it works on tour.
The most successful players, over the longer term and consistently, tend to be those with the superior long games.
The weekly winner is normally the one of those players who putts better that week.

Again lets look at actial numbers, from Arnold Palmer invitational
Position, name, putting strokes gained position, tee to green strokes gained, off the tee strokes gained...
1.Kitiyama, putting 3rd, tee-green 14th,drive 42nd
2.English, 2nd, 32nd, 30th
2.McIlroy, 40th, 5th, 12th
4.Scheffler 54th, 2nd, 5th.
4.Speith 35th, 7th, 29th
4.Cantlay 49th, 3rd, 3rd

So putting has the least correlation with top 5 (average position 31st), less than both tee to green (Average 10th) and driving Average position (average 20th)

Scotty Scheffler lost shots on the green!

(Yes, I know its not that simple, put clearly putting isnt the all important stat)

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Again lets look at actial numbers, from Arnold Palmer invitational
Position, name, putting strokes gained position, tee to green strokes gained, off the tee strokes gained...
1.Kitiyama, putting 3rd, tee-green 14th,drive 42nd
2.English, 2nd, 32nd, 30th
2.McIlroy, 40th, 5th, 12th
4.Scheffler 54th, 2nd, 5th.
4.Speith 35th, 7th, 29th
4.Cantlay 49th, 3rd, 3rd

So putting has the least correlation with top 5 (average position 31st), less than both tee to green (Average 10th) and driving Average position (average 20th)

Scotty Scheffler lost shots on the green!

(Yes, I know its not that simple, put clearly putting isnt the all important stat)

But the top 2 were 3rd and 2nd in putting?