GMan
Hacker
I don't believe in talent. People reach the top of their fields due to the dedication and time they put in to get there.
The difference between theory and reality
- Thread starter timgolfy
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bluewolf
Money List Winner
Don't really agree with this to be honest. By your reckoning, the only thing seperating Joe Average from Superstardom is lazyness. The best way to the top is natural talent coupled with a solid work ethic and a strong personality. Time and dedication will get you as far as YOU are able to go. They will not get you to the top of your chosen field...
Have you ever read 'Fever Pitch' by Nick Hornby?
He has an interesting take on that statement.
Gus Caesar, I'll say no more..
Tiger
Money List Winner
Oohh I can answer this one. Between the age of 3-5 your body and mind are most receptive to developing high quality muscle memory. Tiger started playing age 2.
Quality of instruction is important. It needs to be fun, enjoyable, appropriately focused, tailored to a particular learning style and sufficiently frequent.
The individual needs a decent level of skill and body mechanics, application, a degree of determination and mental strength. These elements will enable them to stay focused on the game even when there maybe other distractions. Tiger did not have a normal childhood or adolescence which is probably the root cause of his petulance and lasciviousness.
Those individuals that excel at the sport in later life probably developed the core hand eye co-ordination and a similar muscle memory from playing other sports in their youth. Those sports will also be responsible for key mental characteristics such as propensity to train and resilience.
Where it falls down for most of us is the lack of that early exposure coupled with additional lifestyle constraints. Our progress should be seen as success is in spite of those challenges rather than failure because if them. Although the ball in golf remains static in golf the dimensions add to the complexity of the game. Comparisons with hockey, cricket and tennis are not accurate due to the relative sizes of ball and 'bat' and the distance from the player to the target object.
An ideal experiment to test this would be to take identical twins, give one a Tiger upbringing and introduce the other to the sport at the age of 25 when they have a family and kids. That would clearly dispel the myth that nature rules over nurture.
The way I see it the odds are stacked heavily against us, especially if you start later in life. Single figure players should be lauded and cat 1 players hailed. If you get to that level with a happy spouse and a strong bond with your kids: in my eye you've played a blinder.
Quality of instruction is important. It needs to be fun, enjoyable, appropriately focused, tailored to a particular learning style and sufficiently frequent.
The individual needs a decent level of skill and body mechanics, application, a degree of determination and mental strength. These elements will enable them to stay focused on the game even when there maybe other distractions. Tiger did not have a normal childhood or adolescence which is probably the root cause of his petulance and lasciviousness.
Those individuals that excel at the sport in later life probably developed the core hand eye co-ordination and a similar muscle memory from playing other sports in their youth. Those sports will also be responsible for key mental characteristics such as propensity to train and resilience.
Where it falls down for most of us is the lack of that early exposure coupled with additional lifestyle constraints. Our progress should be seen as success is in spite of those challenges rather than failure because if them. Although the ball in golf remains static in golf the dimensions add to the complexity of the game. Comparisons with hockey, cricket and tennis are not accurate due to the relative sizes of ball and 'bat' and the distance from the player to the target object.
An ideal experiment to test this would be to take identical twins, give one a Tiger upbringing and introduce the other to the sport at the age of 25 when they have a family and kids. That would clearly dispel the myth that nature rules over nurture.
The way I see it the odds are stacked heavily against us, especially if you start later in life. Single figure players should be lauded and cat 1 players hailed. If you get to that level with a happy spouse and a strong bond with your kids: in my eye you've played a blinder.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
There are many footballers who started as young as Messi, practicse and train as hard as Messi and understand technique as well as Messi, why aren't they as good as Messi?
Talent?
Talent?
TheJezster
Tour Rookie
Some people have a natural ability for sports, some dont. This is fact, you cant refute it.
You can overcome a lot with dedication and hard work, but some people just naturally pick things up and will be better at things than others who have been doing that thing for years.
Take one of my friends for example, so uncoordinated you wouldnt believe. There is no way in the world he could be good at hand to eye coordinated sports, no matter how much practice he put in. Yes, he would probably improve, but not to a level where he could be one of the best.
It's the same with academics, some have a natural propensity towards that, and some dont. It is no difference.
You can overcome a lot with dedication and hard work, but some people just naturally pick things up and will be better at things than others who have been doing that thing for years.
Take one of my friends for example, so uncoordinated you wouldnt believe. There is no way in the world he could be good at hand to eye coordinated sports, no matter how much practice he put in. Yes, he would probably improve, but not to a level where he could be one of the best.
It's the same with academics, some have a natural propensity towards that, and some dont. It is no difference.
Tiger
Money List Winner
There are many footballers who started as young as Messi, practicse and train as hard as Messi and understand technique as well as Messi, why aren't they as good as Messi?
Talent?
That's not the point I'm making. Talent determines how good you get and in some cases genius negates the necessity for the right support structure. But in the majority of cases correct exposure to and support whilst playing a sport helps people rise to the top v
RGDave
Money List Winner
I agree. Here's an example - Every year, thousands of boys around the country are signed up by football academies and have the time/support/coaching/input(?) they need to succeed. Every year, thousands also get dropped by the same teams that thought they had what it takes. If time and dedication were all it took, most of these lads would end up playing for teams in the top divisions.
My sister was engaged to a chap who did nothing else but play football, all day, every day, coaching three/four times a week, games, practise, diet, fitness, gym, mental, it was all going on. He got dropped and never returned despite trying for most of the other London teams. Where did it go wrong? he wasn't talented enough.
There are many footballers who started as young as Messi, practicse and train as hard as Messi and understand technique as well as Messi, why aren't they as good as Messi?
Talent?
That's not the point I'm making. Talent determines how good you get and in some cases genius negates the necessity for the right support structure. But in the majority of cases correct exposure to and support whilst playing a sport helps people rise to the top v
I nearly agree with you here.
I think all that support etc. can get you to rise up towards the top, and might even take you past many people who might have a tad more talant, but who don't have the backup.
But to get to the top - the very top, you need that effort, that support, but then you need that extra, unquantifiable something.
Take Woods. I bet he's not the first to be be nutured from such a young age, and there's definitely loads since.
But only one in each generation gets to be the best.
Tiger
Money List Winner
No I think we do agree. Talent is what differentiates those at the top but for the most part they would have had similar journeys to get there.
percy_layer
Challenge Tour Pro
In my opinion its down to Desire and a Good Work Ethic for golfers of average physical and emotional capabilities.
Remember that there is a huge difference between Scratch and Tour Player standard which is comfortably in the plus handicap standards.
I believe that the reason why more people do not reduce their handicaps is because they do not practice with a purpose and golf is not important to them enough to sacrifice other things in their life. Such as time with the family, work, pub....etc
It really puzzles me that you played off low singles and now think 9 is a wonderful achieving.
Do you care to talk me through your thought procedure Homer? Really.really puzzling.....
Fcuk me...I agree!!
RGDave
Money List Winner
I was reading some bumpf today about joining Wolves footy academy. (Don't ask....)
It was presumably part of the paperwork for new recruits.
In it, it mentions that "not all players will succeed in becoming professional footballers, no matter how hard they train" and so on.
It seemed rather co-incidental since I mentioned football earlier before my trip over to Wolverhampton today.
It was presumably part of the paperwork for new recruits.
In it, it mentions that "not all players will succeed in becoming professional footballers, no matter how hard they train" and so on.
It seemed rather co-incidental since I mentioned football earlier before my trip over to Wolverhampton today.
Quite simple. Younger body, access to daily coaching, 18 holes of golf or more and plenty of short game work every day and good healthy competitive golf. I now have access to none of the above with perhaps the short game work but why practice when you can play as I've been told more than once on here recently. I had a certain degree of aptitude which has gone with illness, injury, work and other life issues. That's why 9 is achievable (eventually) but I'm not aiming lower.
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