That David Duval 14

[Orikoru]

I haven't seen all the details, but I'm really curious about one of the rules which wasn't really explained very well in the article I read.

Here is the Telegraph's take on it:

Duval hit two provisional balls off the 7th tee and thought he was playing his third ball until he realised at the green it was “the wrong Titleist 2”. Duval is colour blind and until a caddy in the group informed him did not notice the number was red, denoting a ProV X, instead of the black number on his ProV X.

Duval went back to where the wrong ball had been played, but could not find the correct ball so was obliged to return the tee to start all over again. Playing nine off the tee - after a two-shot penalty - he took six more shots. In all the madness, the marker initially put it down as a 15 and then, after the scorers erroneously decided the third provisional did not count, it was updated to a 14. Duval was as confused as anyone

Alternatively in Duval's own words:

"I had a couple of bad tee shots and then we thought the marshal had my ball, asked if it was a Titleist 2, I looked at it and saw a two and played almost the entirety of the hole and it turns out with the wrong ball.

"There was a two-shot penalty for the wrong ball and then I had to go back to the tee and basically start the hole over. A very unique, awful situation."

It doesn't really make sense to me. So he finds one of his provisionals - initially he thinks it's the 2nd provisional. It later turns out he made a mistake and it was his first provisional - but it was still the correct ball in play in that case wasn't it? Why did he have to sack it off and go back instead of just finishing the hole? I'd have thought if you realise you've hit your 1st provisional instead of your 2nd provisional then happy days, that's two fewer shots taken! Why would he have to scrub almost the entire hole just because he couldn't read the number on the ball at first?? He still correctly identified it was his ball so I'd have thought it was fine to finish the hole with it?

Can someone explain to me what happened? Or maybe there's another account on the internet somewhere that explains it better?

 

[jim8flog]

- but it was still the correct ball in play in that case wasn't it? Why did he have to sack it off and go back instead of just finishing the hole? I'd have thought if you realise you've hit your 1st provisional instead of your 2nd provisional then happy days, that's two fewer shots taken! Why would he have to scrub almost the entire hole just because he couldn't read the number on the ball at first?? He still correctly identified it was his ball so I'd have thought it was fine to finish the hole with it?
QUOTE]

The ball was not his, it was a wrong ball.

The ball was identified as a Prov1X (red numbers) and not a Prov1 (black numbers).

The pros have to follow the one ball rule (same make model and type) so even if he had hit this ball as a provisional he would have been penalised for playing the wrong type of ball.

 

[Orikoru]

Oh really? I thought they were saying he misidentified his 1st provisional as his 2nd provisional, but you're saying he actually play a ball that wasn't his, thinking it was his provisional? that makes sense, they just didn't explain it very well.

 

[clubchamp98]

It dosnt say he found one of his provisional balls.
He just found a Titleist 2.
I would be very surprised if any player at the open had a mix of red and black numbered balls as most usually play only one type of ball.
He should have a identity mark on it .
The way the rules are now why did he not pick it up to identify it with his caddy present.
That’s a schoolboy error from a former open champion.

 

[robinthehood]

I thought it was a 13. Did they lose count and change it?

 

[jim8flog]

Oh really? I thought they were saying he misidentified his 1st provisional as his 2nd provisional, but you're saying he actually play a ball that wasn't his, thinking it was his provisional? that makes sense, they just didn't explain it very well.

Putting it simply even if it was his he has played a wrong ball from the tee under the one ball rule that is a condition of the competition in professional and top elite competitions.

ie a player must pay the same make and model/type of ball for all shots during the course of a round.

There was a recent event where a pro ran out of balls, had his fellow competitors been playing the same type of ball he could have got one from one of them but clearly they were not.

 

[Orikoru]

I thought it was a 13. Did they lose count and change it?

They changed it overnight to a 14. That got me as well - what kind of cold-hearted, mean-spirited rules official looks at a man who shot 19 over par and thinks "hang on, we'd better recount that hole just to make sure it was a 13". Get a life man.

 

[Orikoru]

It dosnt say he found one of his provisional balls.
He just found a Titleist 2.
I would be very surprised if any player at the open had a mix of red and black numbered balls as most usually play only one type of ball.
He should have a identity mark on it .
The way the rules are now why did he not pick it up to identify it with his caddy present.
That’s a schoolboy error from a former open champion.

I couldn't find the article that I read yesterday, which was the one I thought was saying he simply played his other provisional. And yes, if he's colour blind and struggled to identify the ball I'd be having serious words with the caddy to be honest.

 

[Orikoru]

Putting it simply even if it was his he has played a wrong ball from the tee under the one ball rule that is a condition of the competition in professional and top elite competitions.

ie a player must pay the same make and model/type of ball for all shots during the course of a round.

There was a recent event where a pro ran out of balls, had his fellow competitors been playing the same type of ball he could have got one from one of them but clearly they were not.

Ok that's fair enough. But in essence the fault would have been in actually placing the new (different) ball on the tee as a provisional in the first place. Rather than finding and playing it for a second time.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ok that's fair enough. But in essence the fault would have been in actually placing the new (different) ball on the tee as a provisional in the first place. Rather than finding and playing it for a second time.

I dought he played a different ball off the tee.
Most pros only play one type of ball because it’s the one they prefer.
Why would he have a different ball in his bag?
It’s probably a members ball that has been there a while or lost during practice days.
Very poor really.

 

[Colin L]

As I understand it, he played his tee shot, then a provisional and then another provisional. The second provisional is played in relation to the first provisional. In that situation, the sequence of events is that if you can't find your original ball in time, your first provisional is in play and if found you would be playing 4. But if you cannot find your first provisional in time, then your second provisional is in play and if found you are playing 6. If I've got it right, Duval reached the stage where he had to find his second provisional, thought he had found it but was playing a wrong ball. Once the mistake is realised in time, all strokes and penalties with a wrong ball are discounted, and you have to find the correct ball and play the hole out with it with a 2 stroke penalty. It seems Duval could not find the correct ball (i.e, the second provisional) and so had to play stroke and distance in relation to that ball, playing 7 off the tee plus the wrong ball penalty.

I hope I've understood the events correctly.

I don't think the one ball rule is relevant. Even if by weird chance he had found and played the correct make and model of ball, but the wrong one, the outcome would have been the same.

 

[Orikoru]

I dought he played a different ball off the tee.
Most pros only play one type of ball because it’s the one they prefer.
Why would he have a different ball in his bag?
It’s probably a members ball that has been there a while or lost during practice days.
Very poor really.

Yeah very silly not to identify the ball. But even moving from that - what's the penalty for playing the wrong ball? Two shots? Even having hit two provisionals, all balls deemed lost, two shot penalty for playing the wrong ball, that's 7 shots, so going back to the tee he's playing his 8th shot. So to make 14 he must have still made a double bogey 7 from there.

 

[spongebob59]

https://www.theopen.com/Latest/2019/07/The148thOpen/David-Duval-score-adjustment

 

[Orikoru]

https://www.theopen.com/Latest/2019/07/The148thOpen/David-Duval-score-adjustment

Cheers... I think that's what I said in my last post but I just got my maths wrong, haha. When I said above he's playing his 8th shot (from the tee) I actually meant 9th. All sorted.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah very silly not to identify the ball. But even moving from that - what's the penalty for playing the wrong ball? Two shots? Even having hit two provisionals, all balls deemed lost, two shot penalty for playing the wrong ball, that's 7 shots, so going back to the tee he's playing his 8th shot. So to make 14 he must have still made a double bogey 7 from there.

Yes and his head would have been scrambled by then so it’s understandable in the circumstances.

 

[Orikoru]

Didn't you nelieve me?

Sorry pal, I thought me liking your post would be all the validation you'd require, clearly I was wrong.

 

[Colin L]

You're too quick for me! I hadn't noticed the thumbs up, deleted the post because on second thoughts realised it was rude only to find you had already seen it. Sorry!