Texas Scramble

[IanMcC]

Where are they getting this texas scramble data from? Scrambles aren;t generally fed through a back end, certainly not before Covid, and not seen one since either

I am staggered to hear that scrambles are not scored via the software anywhere. Apart from the 25/20/15/10 percentages, with the different tees being used by different sexes (0.35 allowance for each lady on our course, whites v reds), I would find it really hard to accurately allocate allowances without the software.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

That's as maybe, but Scotland is not the whole world you know.

I see, yet your experience at TWO clubs would say otherwise? Rightyo then

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I am staggered to hear that scrambles are not scored via the software anywhere. Apart from the 25/20/15/10 percentages, with the different tees being used by different sexes (0.35 allowance for each lady on our course, whites v reds), I would find it really hard to accurately allocate allowances without the software.

I am refering to the supposed (LOL) collection of data prior to WHS that allowed CONGU to come up with these farcical handicap allowances.

I haven't played a scramble since, knowing full well scoring would be a farce, and that's how it's turned out, so we don't play them anymore. No idea if clubs are doing this manually or via computer, but as Scottish Golf's VMS system can't cope with mixed tee scrambles - we tried it last year, had to go and work out the allowances manually anyway as only teams that were all male worked correctly - I doubt it. Quite laughable ineptitude.

 

[rulefan]

The sense I pick up from chatter is that in ALL forms of the game the higher HCP players are doing better now in comparison to before the whs came along

Perhaps it's balancing up.

 

[rulefan]

Scottish Golf's VMS system can't cope with mixed tee scrambles -.

There is a Mixed-Tee-Calculator-WHS-v1.9.xlsx on (I think) one or more of the CONGU or National websites. It works for all forms and genders I can think of. We've used it on many scrambles (Mixed gender, tees, 2, 3 or 4 players)

Edit: Try here for v1.10
https://www.my-golf.uk/whs-mixed-tee-handicap-calculator/

Google: whs-mixed-tee-handicap-calculator

 

[D-S]

I must admit that I was surprised that with WHS in the UK they decided to weigh in for the first time with mandatory allowances for scrambles.
There aren’t any agreed rules for this format of golf so how can you start setting allowances for it without getting into such contentious issues?
Surely this is just hit and giggle golf, if you have mandatory allowances for this why not other forms of fun golf- there are plenty.
Just as surprisingly, on the chart at least, they do not show allowances for 3 ball team formats (1 out of 3, 2 out of 3) which, at least around here are far more common Open and Club competitions governed by the ROG.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

There is a Mixed-Tee-Calculator-WHS-v1.9.xlsx on (I think) one or more of the CONGU or National websites. It works for all forms and genders I can think of. We've used it on many scrambles (Mixed gender, tees, 2, 3 or 4 players)

Edit: Try here for v1.10
https://www.my-golf.uk/whs-mixed-tee-handicap-calculator/

Google: whs-mixed-tee-handicap-calculator

Rulie, WE had no problems doing this manually, VMS (Scottish golf's back end) can't do it, when I eventually got a reply to why it was wrong after a year of repeated requests - "scrambles are generally not mixed and VMS can't work out a mixed scramble". If you had to use VMS, you wouldn't be surprised at this.

 

[Swango1980]

I must admit that I was surprised that with WHS in the UK they decided to weigh in for the first time with mandatory allowances for scrambles.
There aren’t any agreed rules for this format of golf so how can you start setting allowances for it without getting into such contentious issues?
Surely this is just hit and giggle golf, if you have mandatory allowances for this why not other forms of fun golf- there are plenty.
Just as surprisingly, on the chart at least, they do not show allowances for 3 ball team formats (1 out of 3, 2 out of 3) which, at least around here are far more common Open and Club competitions governed by the ROG.

Apparently it is because they reviewed thousands and thousands of scores, they couldn't possibly be wrong. I am sure they carefully checked the rules enforced in each of those scores (min no. of drives) and team make up (single sex or mixed) and difference between men and lady tees.

I am sure they will also soon provide mandatory handicaps for Mulligan and 3 Club competitions. Those scores were put on ISVs so might as well

 

[doublebogey7]

Our Texas scrambles were dealt with manually before the new rules were published.

As I have many times, both my current club and my last club used the software in the ISVs to record scrambles, before WHS. They cannot be the only clubs so there will be more than sufficient data for the R&A/USGA to work on.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

As I have many times, both my current club and my last club used the software in the ISVs to record scrambles, before WHS. They cannot be the only clubs so there will be more than sufficient data for the R&A/USGA to work on.

Yes you've already said you have a sample size of 2.

All I can say really is your handicap secretaries must really like extra work if they went to all that hassle.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yes you've already said you have a sample size of 2.

All I can say really is your handicap secretaries must really like extra work if they went to all that hassle.

I note you are in Scotland so may not have access to the software we have in England, but as a former (recent) handicap secretary I can assure you it is very much less time consuming to use the ISV software than it is to do the whole thing manually.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I note you are in Scotland so may not have access to the software we have in England, but as a former (recent) handicap secretary I can assure you it is very much less time consuming to use the ISV software than it is to do the whole thing manually.

LOL, no it isn't. As a current handicap secretary I can assure you, simply handing out a card and informing the team of their handicap is far easier.

 

[IanMcC]

I note you are in Scotland so may not have access to the software we have in England, but as a former (recent) handicap secretary I can assure you it is very much less time consuming to use the ISV software than it is to do the whole thing manually.

Totally agree. I thought BB's statement was a bit mad. ?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Totally agree. I thought BB's statement was a bit mad. ?

I refer yu to #112 and my specific reply to you #103

 

[IanMcC]

OK, lets break this down then.



Pre tournament using software – People log in. Payment is taken automatically. The software recognizes if it is a member or not, and charges accordingly. The software knows all handicap Indexes, and knows the allowance to give for dual tee usage. The software also recognizes any overnight Index changes. On the day of the comp the labels can be printed and attached to cards, ready for competitors to pick up.



Pre tournament manually – People will have to pay on the day. No doubt the same person collecting the money will be inundated by questions regarding handicap allowances and dual tee allowances. Either this same person, or each individual team, will have to write out their scorecards. A conservative estimate is that at least a quarter will get their total allowance wrong if doing their own calculations.



Post tournament using software – the golfers upload their scores into the PSI after their round, and the software works out the winners. The M&H secretary checks the top 3 or 4 cards for errors and drives per player, and dishes out the prizes.



Post tournament manually – the golfers give their cards to the M&H Secretary, who then has to check every card for correct allowance and scores, hoping to spot the 25% or so that have the wrong allowance in the process. If it was a shotgun event, half of the winners will have left the building before any sort of result is reached.



I know which one gives me less hassle as a M&H secretary, as we are in fact running a Texas Shotgun this weekend. I submit that it would be almost impossible to do it manually.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

OK, lets break this down then.



Pre tournament using software – People log in. Payment is taken automatically. The software recognizes if it is a member or not, and charges accordingly. The software knows all handicap Indexes, and knows the allowance to give for dual tee usage. The software also recognizes any overnight Index changes. On the day of the comp the labels can be printed and attached to cards, ready for competitors to pick up.



Pre tournament manually – People will have to pay on the day. No doubt the same person collecting the money will be inundated by questions regarding handicap allowances and dual tee allowances. Either this same person, or each individual team, will have to write out their scorecards. A conservative estimate is that at least a quarter will get their total allowance wrong if doing their own calculations.



Post tournament using software – the golfers upload their scores into the PSI after their round, and the software works out the winners. The M&H secretary checks the top 3 or 4 cards for errors and drives per player, and dishes out the prizes.



Post tournament manually – the golfers give their cards to the M&H Secretary, who then has to check every card for correct allowance and scores, hoping to spot the 25% or so that have the wrong allowance in the process. If it was a shotgun event, half of the winners will have left the building before any sort of result is reached.



I know which one gives me less hassle as a M&H secretary, as we are in fact running a Texas Shotgun this weekend. I submit that it would be almost impossible to do it manually.

Lovely, except VMS doesn't do that for a scramble, so you have to do it manually anyway.

 

[rulefan]

Lovely, except VMS doesn't do that for a scramble, so you have to do it manually anyway.

Not entirely, if you use the link I posted

 

[doublebogey7]

LOL, no it isn't. As a current handicap secretary I can assure you, simply handing out a card and informing the team of their handicap is far easier.

Erm, start sheet? Calculating handicap? Sorting and checking scorecards ? Posting results etc. Unless of course you only have half a dozen teams entering, we'll have anything up to 40.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Not entirely, if you use the link I posted

OK, fair doos, and that's actually very handy, but we're still doing the scoring manually because clubs using VMS have no option.

 

[rulefan]

OK, fair doos, and that's actually very handy, but we're still doing the scoring manually because clubs using VMS have no option.

Fair enough