tee boxes in play or not ?

[bladeplayer]

Morning fellas just a quick question, havent come across this during play before ..

playing partners ball went left and ended up on the tee box for the next hole , in normal conditions are tee boxes automaticaly in play or out of play ?

or does there have to be a local rule covering free drop off ,

& could you direct me to the rule please , I looked but couldnt find it


Thanks

 

[DCB]

It's just part of the course, so play it as it lies.

 

[bladeplayer]

It's just part of the course, so play it as it lies.

Thank you , my opinion was it would only be a drop off it there was a local rule in place to save the tee box or something ..

 

[Foxholer]

Thank you , my opinion was it would only be a drop off it there was a local rule in place to save the tee box or something ..

That is correct.

A few clubs do have this LR, so check the card.

Wrong putting green is a different matter though. Ball MUST be lifted......

 

[Shiny]

Play it as it lies, although in a bounce game I would lift and drop rather than take a divot out the tee box.

 

[Colin L]

A few clubs do have this LR, .

That's interesting. Offhand, I can't think of any way in which such a Local Rule can be supported by the Rules.

But you never find unsupportable Local Rules so I must be wrong.

Duncan/Rulefan - am I missing something?

 

[Colin L]

Nope. I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything, and I'll put a pint on it that you cannot have such a Local Rule. :cheers:

 

[BTatHome]

Can't see how you could make a LR to define this, but also can't see why you would do so. Surley a tee box is one of the few places on the course that you can guarantee you will find divots already !

 

[Ethan]

I have heard of this local rule but never seen it. Consider yourself lucky to have found a good lie.

 

[duncan mackie]

That's interesting. Offhand, I can't think of any way in which such a Local Rule can be supported by the Rules.

But you never find unsupportable Local Rules so I must be wrong.

Duncan/Rulefan - am I missing something?

not missing anything

I think the real issue is that you can't have an area defined as GUR for the play of a single hole alone, and there isn't sufficient definition of a teeing gound!

Obvious issues would occur with a ball that goes 2yds from the teeing ground, but doesn't leave the prepared teeing surface for the hole in play - how would this be defined in a LR? how would the other teeing grounds of the hole in play be defined?

You have a wrong putting green defined in the rules, and you are permitted to extend this by LR to include the fringe (the only time I have seen this the fringes weren't defined on the course and the LR was wrongly worded but that's another thing!), but you are correct that the rules wouldn't support a LR relating to 'wrong teeing grounds'

 

[CMAC]

That's interesting. Offhand, I can't think of any way in which such a Local Rule can be supported by the Rules.

But you never find unsupportable Local Rules so I must be wrong.

Duncan/Rulefan - am I missing something?

I was in a national 4BBB match last year at an away course, opponent loses a tee shot ball in thick rough, then tells me the LR from the committee is to drop one outside the rough with no penalty He birdied the hole and we lost the match!
Queried it and just got "that's the rules blah blah blah- Wish I'd known about how committees can't change the rules of golf....rule as we would have gone 3 up at that point.........

 

[Colin L]

not missing anything

Thanks. As you saw, I quickly convinced myself that I wasn't and put a pint on it. I am a Scot: I do not squander money on bets that aren't certainties.

 

[duncan mackie]

I was in a national 4BBB match last year at an away course, opponent loses a tee shot ball in thick rough, then tells me the LR from the committee is to drop one outside the rough with no penalty He birdied the hole and we lost the match!
Queried it and just got "that's the rules blah blah blah- Wish I'd known about how committees can't change the rules of golf....rule as we would have gone 3 up at that point.........

I suspect that Colin's winking smilie was to point out that you do find unsuportable LRs only too frequently......

Unfortunately the rules also state that you have to play to them, even if they are rubbish, although of sourse they shouldn't be etc etc. CONGU states that rounds playeed to LRs that aren't in line with the rules shouldn't be Q - but you can find evidence that they are all the time at many courses; which then leads to the statement that handicaps based on those scores shouldn't be valid - but again I've yet to see any action taken! If anyone has evidence of such actions it would be really interesting ?

 

[full_throttle]

we have a free drop if your ball comes to rest on a tee box not belonging to the hole we are playing, I'll find the wording when I get home. Can you clarify if this LR is illegal oe not. It's our AGM at the end of the month and I'll raise this it is illegal.

 

[Colin L]

Local rules have to be within the guidance given in Appendix 1 of the Rules:

Rule 33-8a
The Committee may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I.


This one does not conform to that policy.

A Committee can ask the R&A for approval of a local rule which waives a Rule of Golf if there is abnormal condition which is interfering with the proper playing of golf (33-8b). I would wager yet another pint that no-one would get permission for a local rule allowing a free drop from a tee. It would be hard to argue that a tee was a) abnormal considering there are quite a few around most courses and b) interfering with the proper playing of golf when they are actually designed to be played from.

I suggest you let your Board know in advance of the meeting and give it time to look into the matter rather than spring it on it as AOCB.

 

[rulefan]

Nope. I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything, and I'll put a pint on it that you cannot have such a Local Rule. :cheers:

Colin

Providing the defined area of the Teeing Ground of the hole being payed is not in included, all 'teeing areas' are Through The Green. So I can see no problem in making the areas as GUR play prohibited.

I´m away from home at present an haven´t got access to my files but am pretty sure I have had a ruling on this sometime.

But the logic of it defies me. Players are taking divots off the tee all the time. How often does a stray ball land on a tee?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I was in a national 4BBB match last year at an away course, opponent loses a tee shot ball in thick rough, then tells me the LR from the committee is to drop one outside the rough with no penalty He birdied the hole and we lost the match!
Queried it and just got "that's the rules blah blah blah- Wish I'd known about how committees can't change the rules of golf....rule as we would have gone 3 up at that point.........

But what if the area of long rough actually contained protected plant species at certain times of the year. The club probably wouldn't be allowed to cut the rough and they probably wouldn't want golfers trampling about in it, flattening the protected species or indeed hacking them to bits. So a LR that gave relief from such rough in the way you describe would be eminently sensible.

 

[full_throttle]

I was in a national 4BBB match last year at an away course, opponent loses a tee shot ball in thick rough, then tells me the LR from the committee is to drop one outside the rough with no penalty He birdied the hole and we lost the match!
Queried it and just got "that's the rules blah blah blah- Wish I'd known about how committees can't change the rules of golf....rule as we would have gone 3 up at that point.........

just had another read through the above, I've highlighted my concern

if the ball is lost, then regardless of LR the drop should be under penalty. I would imagine the LR would state if found the ball my be dropped without penalty,

 

[full_throttle]

Local rules have to be within the guidance given in Appendix 1 of the Rules:

Rule 33-8a
The Committee may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I.


This one does not conform to that policy.

A Committee can ask the R&A for approval of a local rule which waives a Rule of Golf if there is abnormal condition which is interfering with the proper playing of golf (33-8b). I would wager yet another pint that no-one would get permission for a local rule allowing a free drop from a tee. It would be hard to argue that a tee was a) abnormal considering there are quite a few around most courses and b) interfering with the proper playing of golf when they are actually designed to be played from.

I suggest you let your Board know in advance of the meeting and give it time to look into the matter rather than spring it on it as AOCB.

Colin, the wording on the score reads as follows.

Dropping without penalty;
d, Greens and Tees- A ball lying on a green or tee other than the one being played must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point of relief not nearer the hole.

 

[rosecott]

But what if the area of long rough actually contained protected plant species at certain times of the year. The club probably wouldn't be allowed to cut the rough and they probably wouldn't want golfers trampling about in it, flattening the protected species or indeed hacking them to bits. So a LR that gave relief from such rough in the way you describe would be eminently sensible.

just had another read through the above, I've highlighted my concern

if the ball is lost, then regardless of LR the drop should be under penalty. I would imagine the LR would state if found the ball my be dropped without penalty,

Hogan,

Surely the answer in such a situation is to declare and identify the area as GUR with play from within it prohibited (and entry into it also prohibited). Perhaps it was. If that was the case, FT, the drop would be without penalty.