Technology versus Skill

[HomerJSimpson]

I happen to agree with sammmebee. Consumers are more aware of what is in the market place across the board. Would you simply roll into a car showroom and pick one on colour or name or would you perhaps look at a few magazines, take a test drive, peruse the internet etc.

Its the same with golf. Every magazine covers features and articles on thelatest releases. Most top manufacturers have demo days with the sole intention of letting people try the product in a specification that is best for them (and in the hope they'll buy on the day). Advice is frequently sort from forum members on balls, shoes etc just look at the polls currently running.

Clearly there will be the "all the gear" merchants that will buy top end because a) they can afford to, b) they have to have it to look the part, and c) they think it'l actually help there game. We all know the only thing they really need are a course of lessons. These are the type of people sammmebee is talking about. Those that can't be helped.

 

[Imurg]

Open or close the face of the one lob you have or use a sand wedge/pitching wedge.
I get more satisfaction being able to manipulate a club to differing lengths than i would having 3 different lofts to chose from.

Being perfectly honest here - I get more satisfaction getting the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible.

 

[fastmover2]

Clearly there will be the "all the gear" merchants that will buy top end because a) they can afford to, b) they have to have it to look the part, and c) they think it'l actually help there game. We all know the only thing they really need are a course of lessons. These are the type of people sammmebee is talking about. Those that can't be helped.

Homer I think I see where you are going with this but I think that you are being a litle unfair to those of us who like to buy "top end". Yes, undoubtedly, we do buy this gear because we are fortunate enough to be able to afford to do so. The guys I know with "top end" gear, myself included, really could care less if they look the part or not, their golf does the talking, or not, as the case may be. Personally, what others might think of me,my game or anything I do or own is, well, irrelevant actually. In my experience, and in most fields of endeavour, better quality equipment will generally result in a better outcome even if only because it gives the user more confidence. Your comment about us "only needing a course of lessons" is amusing as all of us are assiduous lesson takers and practicers. We are not naive enough to think that solely buying top notch kit will improve our games.

Technology has, and will continue to play a part in golf though I do not believe that it has actually made all that much difference at the club player level, this is backed up by various statistics(!) on average handicaps compared to twenty or so years ago. I still see as many duffs,shanks tops,etc. as I did 25 years ago. A certain basic skill set is required before any technology,club fitting etc. will be worthwhile or effective.

IMHO at the end of the day lessons and practice are going to improve a person's game far more than buying into the latest technology fad. The trouble is in our modern society people seem to think that they can buy an answer to anything, with this belief being consistently re-inforced by clever marketing.

If you truly want to get better,have lessons, practice what you are taught and then practice some more!

 

[Cernunnos]

I generally agree with Bobmac, though would echo Homer too.

On one hand where the prospective customers are coming in knowing their product knowledge as well if not better in some cases than the slaesperson or shop-pro.

With manufacturers changing product lines, it seems every five minutes. The golfclub sales person needs to not only know about every club they carry from every manufacturer, but also what is coming next week, or next month. On top of that they need to know about kit they do-not even carry normally.

But do we really need all this new kit. Well, no we don't as it happens, we rarely ever can buy a new piece of equipment & have it improve our game any more than correct practice, or tuition can. Though on the other hand, bad equipment choice, or incorrect practice or no practice, or illadvised tuition can harm our game far more.

In the case where we are all more informed about the technical side of the game & the technical specs of the newest equipment, a little knowledge can sometimes be a very dangerous thing.

I could whittle on about this at length for hours, giving both sides of the argument, but wont.

I love new kit. I think most of us do. I'm been thinking about yet another new driver, but in reality I don't need it. Infact my current one is working better than any I've so far been using for me. But its not really down to the driver, its down to the monkey swinging it. Especially as I've been heading towards less & less forgiving equipment in general, making me concentrate upon improving my technique.

Perhaps for lent, instead of giving up chocolate or something like that perhaps we should give up buying equipment we have little need of & instead practice for an extra hour that week for every tonne we'd intended upon spending on someting.

 

[Adi_Dassler]

Open or close the face of the one lob you have or use a sand wedge/pitching wedge.
I get more satisfaction being able to manipulate a club to differing lengths than i would having 3 different lofts to chose from.

Being perfectly honest here - I get more satisfaction getting the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible.

Eureka!Have you shared this opinion anywhere else before, you might be onto something I too enjoy playing less shots, but the two points of view are compatable.

 

[Herbie]

In relationship with the sheer volume of golf equipment, technology and developments, the sheer number of manufacturers and retailers, there is likely to be no difference in knowledge level or any fine tuned understanding than there was 40 yrs ago with the average golfer. Can any car buff quote all the new developments in a new model of their favorite car without looking at the brochure let alone all models or watching top gear? People are MADE well informed and Knowledge is placed in front of them at a never ending rate purely to sell. How much information an individual can take on board or wishes to take on board determines how informed they are of publicity relating to that particular field, being knowledgeable in a particular field is a different measureing stick in my book.
Oh Homer, what exactly are you in agreement with samenbee about as it is unclear whether you are in support of his last two posts in this thread or other publication that might be considered an opinion?

As with most golfers and most car drivers, most of them know far less than they think they know, but be assured that they think they know Im wrong on that count.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

HNJ

And still the nit-picking continues. I thought it was self explanatory but I'll try and make it simple. I was agreeing with him on the fact that taking sheer stupidity out of the equation (vanity over ability etc) then most golfers have enough information available to make a reasoned and accurate choice of equipment to suit their game.

To reiterate, would you simply buy a car based on colour and price or would you test drive, read reviews and search the internet for information. That is all the modern golfer is doing with their equipment. They aren't just buying a set because it is TM, Cally or Nike (unless stupid as sammmebee points out) but because they think it has some merits. A good pro will be versed enough on the same equipment to offer a conflicting opinion or agree with the initial assessment.

There you go. Simple really

 

[Herbie]

Nit picking is it Homer?

So you have the right to join forces supporting someone who follows a ligitimate opinion of a general nature with ridicule and insult and you now suggest nit picking.

My opinion wasn't nit picking, nor were my replies or questions.My general opinion was that I dont believe that modern golfers on the whole are well informed or knowledgeable as people think, yet that statement wasnt good enough for the all knowing in here simply becasue the all knowing do not understand that statement and took it personally, but notice I didnt use any 'stupid' comments in my post.

There are many types of golfer out there, those who buy brands because they can, those who buy because someone else has the same, those who buy with limited budget, those who buy something because it simply feels good, those who buy after advice from a forum. The list of reasons for buying golf kit are endless, but none of which indicate 'informed' or 'knowledgeable' with the millions of golfers out there do you genuinely believe they are all more informed and knowledgeale than they have ever been?

If they were, surely the sales would focussed down one or two paths and not the hundreds of directions people can take. Also when I meet golfers I only meet one or two now and then where they appear to know their stuff in any great depth, just because a number on this golf forum are seemingly aware does not extend throughout golf as a whole.

So, my post was in my opinion fair and just and did not require the response it got from the obviously offended.

As far as 'stupid' goes, well stupid is as stupid does.

I have justified my nit picking post homer for those who simply do not understand and could if I wished justify it further, perhaps others should justify their all knowing posts too, now that would be interesting to read

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Also when I meet golfers I only meet one or two now and then where they appear to know their stuff in any great depth

I think you need to get out more then. Most golfers I meet have a knowledge of what the latest makes and models are and many have tried or express a desire to at least try them out. The sources of information (GM gear supplement and even the one in TG last month), AG, demo days, adverts on TV etc all make the latest gear readily available. Most golfers even the pros I know are looking for an edge. My pro got to final qualifying for the Open last year but was still trying out new drivers at Titleist HQ this week and checking his numbers on their state of the art monitor. Clearly he isn't in the stupid category to do so well in the game.

Sales aren't focussed down two paths (simplistic in itself) as it is based on so many factors including the knoweldge of the seller, budget, availability, desire vs realistic need, temptation from other brands, advice from pros and friends. I feel you are being way too dogmatic in your approach to this but clearly have very fixed views on this which I don't agree with but thats what a forum is about.

 

[fastmover2]

My general opinion was that I dont believe that modern golfers on the whole are well informed or knowledgeable as people think,

Actually, I would go along with this. I find it quite surprising the lack of knowledge about equipment among the vast majority of golfers I know, some of them with very respectable handicaps.

There is plenty of information available but people do not seem to avail themselves of it.

 

[Herbie]

Also when I meet golfers I only meet one or two now and then where they appear to know their stuff in any great depth

I think you need to get out more then. Most golfers I meet have a knowledge of what the latest makes and models are and many have tried or express a desire to at least try them out. The sources of information (GM gear supplement and even the one in TG last month), AG, demo days, adverts on TV etc all make the latest gear readily available. Most golfers even the pros I know are looking for an edge. My pro got to final qualifying for the Open last year but was still trying out new drivers at Titleist HQ this week and checking his numbers on their state of the art monitor. Clearly he isn't in the stupid category to do so well in the game.

Sales aren't focussed down two paths (simplistic in itself) as it is based on so many factors including the knoweldge of the seller, budget, availability, desire vs realistic need, temptation from other brands, advice from pros and friends. I feel you are being way too dogmatic in your approach to this but clearly have very fixed views on this which I don't agree with but thats what a forum is about.

I follow what you say Homer but even that elequant post does not show that golfers on the whole are more informed than they ever were?Sources of information are vast because of the number of golfers today, no other reason. It is information offered, not a certainty that readers become informed.Im sure you did RE at school, so quote a dozen passages from the bible word for word liken to the way you quote data.(thats not an insult it is simply pointing out a source of info that is also taught that most people forget after a few years or more to the point, dont have any interest at all in the subject unless they follow religeously and maintain interest) and as for trying stuff, I myself try stuff at any given opportunity??????
There are simply a lot more golfers and a lot more promotions and publications that anyone can pick up data from, being informed and knowledgeable is different from picking up tips or a brochure then tottering off to the club house or for a round to chew the fat on it, nor does it mean that the data they have read up on means they understand what it translates to with club in hand on the course. To say I should get out more is a bit nitty isnt it Homer? I see more than enough golfers, not the same regulars or regulars to a web site, I see real people, different people all the time playing or not, I could introduce you to a 2 h/c player and a 8 h/c player who havent got a clue about golf other than the basic way to play it so your player comment is not every player.I know more golfers who dont even bother themselves with the BS promo's and data, how many of that type do you know?(waits for facetious comment that would be wrong!)

As far as dogmatic goes, Im less dogmatic on subjects than others, I simply ask questions and make general comments that if different to others seems to cause an outcry, yet if you read carefully my post in this thread which led to this, please tell me where it is offensive to an individual in this forum, please tell me what part of the english language I have used that is a threat to others?While you are at it please tell me why I am not allowed (sorry, dogmatic!)to respond to insults that I wish to see justification for. All I see is a very petty and ignorant response by highly strung people over abosolutely nothing but a ligitimate opinion.I do not think the nature of the golf beast has dramatically changed in decades, which means to me that there is no difference in the level of informed/knowledgeable golfers then or now, it just seems that way because of volume. I have tons of very very old magazines and promo flyers from way back, I suppose your theory would suggest that back then people were not as knowledgeable, yet normally in smaller markets for exclusive products as it was way back, I would suggest that man for man they were more knowledgeable about anything golf!

I do wish yourself and others would stop trying to be psycho analysts as your not very good at it, you say I have fixed views on this, please please show me where and how you conclude this?

I have spent a lot of time reading through threads, I have read an awful lot, I dont intend to name names but to psycho analyse, there are plenty who need to get a f****** life beyond being lords of golf data and ridicule!

Someone mentioned cliques developing in a thread I read, well they were not wrong.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

dogmatic - firmly putting forwards one's opinions as true (source Concise Oxford English Dictionary) - I think that is a fairly accurate description of the posts. Sammebee and I are of an opinion that there is a wealth of knowledge out there and that the majority of golfers avails themselves relevant to their purchasing requirements. There are those that are stupid in not utilising the resources available to them (web, magazines, pro advice, AG etc). You disagree and word your reply as though the original opinion we had can't possibly be right - hence dogmatic.

As for being a psycho analyst - well if I ever stop laughing at the idiocy of that statement I'll come back with a reply. Too funny for words.

At the end of the day I'm too bored of this thread now to continue the point. There are fresher topics.

 

[RGDave]

There is plenty of information available but people do not seem to avail themselves of it.

Couldn't agree more. Before I go and look at a club or set of irons, I've read the website, decided IF there is something that's a no, no (like a crazy Swing Weight or overly-long shaft) and generally done some research. It's 1000 times easier since the dawn of t'internet.

It always amazes me to see folks in golf superstores buying all sorts of crap without even questioning the salesman.

I went miles to buy a DVD recorder and the salesman tried to sell me an HDMI lead. I politely said "no, thanks" and he said "99% of customers will need this lead, do you have one at home?" to which I relied, "no, of course not".
"So, take one home with you".....to which I replied "do you think I was born yesterday". They were charging £29.99....I got one - identical make (Belkin) on the 'net for £5.50....say no more.....

 

[Herbie]

dogmatic - firmly putting forwards one's opinions as true (source Concise Oxford English Dictionary) - I think that is a fairly accurate description of the posts. Sammebee and I are of an opinion that there is a wealth of knowledge out there and that the majority of golfers avails themselves relevant to their purchasing requirements. There are those that are stupid in not utilising the resources available to them (web, magazines, pro advice, AG etc). You disagree and word your reply as though the original opinion we had can't possibly be right - hence dogmatic.

As for being a psycho analyst - well if I ever stop laughing at the idiocy of that statement I'll come back with a reply. Too funny for words.

At the end of the day I'm too bored of this thread now to continue the point. There are fresher topics.

Yes you are aware of DOGMATIC homer(good boy)?????Now you are just getting even more petty and announcing your alliance with someone who abuses and insults anothers opinion is what I expected. You dont like my opinions, well thats fine, I wouldnt be a member of any club that would have me any other way, but my post in this thread which led to abuse was a just post which you and others do not have the ability it seems to understand nor accept without knickers twisting in the corner of the playground assuming wrongly that it is some kind of slur against the faithful.
Sometimes its like trying to obtain reasons and justification for the teachings of the bible from a group of mormons, but then again its not, because when you raise questions against their beliefs they dont run to the corner of the playground, gather support for confidence then spit childish venom around should they feel hurt, no, they just accept it and give you reasonable argument. You and your buddy spamenbee are well suited and very childish and I do not give a hoot if that offends. Some big mouths should shut up if they cannot handle questions and should leave a forum and join a boys club.There are never more dogmatic hypocrits than those who first use it as a weapon. So congratulations heres your award .