Technology versus Skill

[bobmac]

Here is my old fashioned view on golf today.
I think some, and only some golfers try to improve their game only by experimenting will the new technology which abounds today.
New drivers with moveable weights, putters with moveable weights, millions of irons and shaft combinations to choose from giving different crunch rates, kick points, spin rates, better MOI, better launch angle, different swing weights, etc etc etc.
Today's golfer is a very informed beast compared to yesteryear.
In the passed, a golfer would go to the nearest Pro shop and buy what he had to offer. If he was lucky, he had 2 golf clubs to choose from. Then with practice he or she learned how to hit the clubs he or she had just bought.

Nowadays, golfers go into the poor pros' shop armed with a vast knowledge of equipment on offer all over the golfing industry.
The pro is expected to know all about the latest technology from all manufacturers and to offer all makes, models, ladies, gents, juniors all in left handed and right handed AND price match the local AG AND offer free custom fitting AND loft and lie and swingweight check.
While I applaud todays golfers for doing their homework to get the bast deal on the clubs they have chosen through weeks of painstaking trial and error and research, they then go out on the course and hit them all over the park.
If the golfer swings the club in a slightly different way every time surely the swing weight of D1 or D6 doesnt matter a jot?
I just feel todays golfer should spend less time worrying about the less important aspects of the game and get out there and spend more time practicing and learning how to hit what you've got.
If you have a house that has crumbling foundations which causes the roof tiles to fall off every day, why spend a fortune on new tiles?
Fix the foundations and you wont need new roof tiles.

I agree all the technology is brilliant with the 460cc heads, hybrids and new ball technology, and its great to have a play around with all the new stuff, but at the end of the day, the golfer needs the skill to swing the dam things in a reasonably good way to hit the ball in roughly the direction they want to go and that skill cannot be replaced by any technology.
So, if someone asked my advice I would say 'find a set you are happy with, get some lessons and go out there and enjoy them'.
Happy golfing and enjoy this summer, we are owed one

 

[Macster]

Good words Bob, I'm guessing you had a bad day yesterday ?

All goes along with my own views on 3/4irons v Hybrids etc, and the lack of perseverance to hit the full set of irons, difficult as some of them may be etc.

 

[SammmeBee]

Today's golfer is a very informed beast compared to yesteryear.
In the passed, a golfer would go to the nearest Pro shop and buy what he had to offer. If he was lucky, he had 2 golf clubs to choose from. Then with practice he or she learned how to hit the clubs he or she had just bought.

Nowadays, golfers go into the poor pros' shop armed with a vast knowledge of equipment on offer all over the golfing industry.
The pro is expected to know all about the latest technology from all manufacturers and to offer all makes, models, ladies, gents, juniors all in left handed and right handed AND price match the local AG AND offer free custom fitting AND loft and lie and swingweight check.

Bob - whilst I agree with the rest of your post, I have to ask about the above...

Thankfully there is now more choice, so the golfer can choose or have selected for them the correct clubs, rather than perhaps having the choice of 2, of which both are wrong for him/her....

It's part of the Pro's role to sell clubs, so you would like to think that he could be bothered to find out as much as he could so a) he sold the punter the right stuff and (perhaps more importantly) b) sold the stuff at all....if the punter can take the time to find out the detail - why can't the pro? I am sure medway could tell you most things about most cars.....perhaps golf pros just don't want to have to 'work' for their money.....:runsforcover:

 

[bobmac]

Didn't really have a bad day yesterday. I just wondered if I was the only one who was getting fed up with all the bad writing everywhere.
I certainly wasn't expecting the huge response I got to the thread which I must say was, on the whole, very well written

 

[Macster]

Bob - not sure which thread you are talking about ? I'll take a look.

As for grammatical errors or spello's, I can spot at least 2 in your post, so yes, I know what you mean !

 

[bobmac]

Sammee, I agree completely with your point.
In todays market, the Pro has to be well informed to lure the customer away from the high street, either wise he or she will go out of business.
The point I was trying to make was that some customers expect the local pro shop to offer ALL the brands in all shapes and sizes.
Most shops can only afford to stock 3 or 4 different manufacturers.
Say, Ping, Titleist, Benross and Yes putters and even then mostly in right handed version.
The high street shops have more selection and a bigger pot to spend so the club pro has to rely on the knowledge and expertise of the equipment he does sell and hope the membership is loyal to the club and buys from him or her at prices that are competitive with the High street.

 

[Redwood]

Sammee, I agree completely with your point.
In todays market, the Pro has to be well informed to lure the customer away from the high street, either wise he or she will go out of business.
The point I was trying to make was that some customers expect the local pro shop to offer ALL the brands in all shapes and sizes.
Most shops can only afford to stock 3 or 4 different manufacturers.
Say, Ping, Titleist, Benross and Yes putters and even then mostly in right handed version.
The high street shops have more selection and a bigger pot to spend so the club pro has to rely on the knowledge and expertise of the equipment he does sell and hope the membership is loyal to the club and buys from him or her at prices that are competitive with the High street.

I know where you are coming from, Bob. Our pro only stocks Ping, Titleist, Callaway and MD. The advent of the new fitting systems is helping him alot though. I'm sure you've seen, or have, the Titleist one yourself, which helps him greatly in keeping down his stock costs.

Once all OEM's start offering this kind of service to the local pro it should go a long way to helping them, and the club golfer.

A good launch monitor is a must also.

 

[SammmeBee]

I know it's tricky as some manufacturers have different rules/pricing structures for different purchasing amounts etc but whilst you may not have it in stock, it would be prudent that he might know somewhere local you could get something he doesn't stock....at least you know that he is recommending you somewhere worth going and you will be looked after (and of course it may work the other way too one day).....

Pros, like golf clubs, need to become better at business - that is what I was trying to say....

It is unfortunate also that most golfers are not members of clubs and hence, as they have no 'loyalty' to the local pro, go to a generic golf superstore and end up with something they don't really want and isn't right for them either....

 

[Earl]

What in your opinion is the standard of golf required to benefit from custom fitting ? I am a 20 H/capper now if i hit 10 shots with the same club i would hazard a guess that 5 would be similar the other 5 would be a mix of left, right shorter or longer. If i had a custom fit and took 10 shots as of now i would have similar results because my skill level would remain the same so is the problem with my swing or my clubs ?
If Technology is the holy grail could i not just buy the best clubs/most expensive and play off single figures the answer is no. So back to my first question.

 

[bobmac]

When I custom fit someone I look for a consistent shot pattern and fit to that. If the player doesn't have one, I suggest he or she goes and has some lessons and does some practice. When he or she develops a consistant swing pattern, then I can suggest shaft, loft and lie options.
There's no point fitting someone then the golfer changes everything.
The majority of golfers can use clubs off the peg to quite a good standard (10 handicap)
Only if you are very tall or short or have a very fast or slow swing should you look at custom fitting.
Having said that, it's good to be C/F'd to give peace of mind that your kit matches your swing/set up.

 

[Adi_Dassler]

I agree with the OP, too much technology over not enough application.I'm 34 and started off with my dads cut down cast-offs, had them for years and then bought a charity shop set of bashed up sticks.
I treated myself to a set of mx19's 18 months ago and i think I'll have them forever (or until I break them)my woods are kane http://www.kanegolf.com/productList.asp?categoryID=1 and i have one loft wedge, for pretty much all amateur golfers to carry 3 loft wedges is overkill in my book.Open or close the face of the one lob you have or use a sand wedge/pitching wedge.
I get more satisfaction being able to manipulate a club to differing lengths than i would having 3 different lofts to chose from.
featheries,hickory and +4's should be mandatory

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think most pros will only stock a limited range and that is understandable but most of the ones I've dealt with have a pretty good idea of the latest makes and models and trends in golf and so can offer a seasoned opinion. Again. those I've had dealings with will cater for lefties or if someone is after a particular set will do what they can to price match and order in.

I think it makes sense to only C/F for someone with a repeatable swing. Surely part of the game at the beginning is to learn to hit the ball well to be able to score and so logic tells me that if you can't do that consistantly on your own then you need the help of a pro to allow you to do so

 

[brendy]

It's part of the Pro's role to sell clubs, so you would like to think that he could be bothered to find out as much as he could so a) he sold the punter the right stuff and (perhaps more importantly) b) sold the stuff at all....if the punter can take the time to find out the detail - why can't the pro? I am sure medway could tell you most things about most cars.....perhaps golf pros just don't want to have to 'work' for their money.....:runsforcover:

Sammmebee, Id say Pro shops are like car dealers, they sell a limited number of makes but what they do sell, they know inside out.(you would at least hope they did anyway)
I think its up to the individual to decide what brand they want for various personal reasons, once they decide, they go to the pro that sells that brand and gets the best equipment of that brand for the money and ability.
If I wanted Titleist irons, I wouldn't go to a Cobra dealer and expect him to get me the right clubs at the right price, I would almost expect him to try to sell me the Cobras instead. Now, regardless of how well he can fit them, if your heart is set on Titleists then he is fighting a losing battle. Best to do a bit of homework on who sells what locally and get the right guy for what you want, it spares any second thoughts later.

 

[SammmeBee]

It's part of the Pro's role to sell clubs, so you would like to think that he could be bothered to find out as much as he could so a) he sold the punter the right stuff and (perhaps more importantly) b) sold the stuff at all....if the punter can take the time to find out the detail - why can't the pro? I am sure medway could tell you most things about most cars.....perhaps golf pros just don't want to have to 'work' for their money.....:runsforcover:

Sammmebee, Id say Pro shops are like car dealers, they sell a limited number of makes but what they do sell, they know inside out.(you would at least hope they did anyway)
I think its up to the individual to decide what brand they want for various personal reasons, once they decide, they go to the pro that sells that brand and gets the best equipment of that brand for the money and ability.
If I wanted Titleist irons, I wouldn't go to a Cobra dealer and expect him to get me the right clubs at the right price, I would almost expect him to try to sell me the Cobras instead. Now, regardless of how well he can fit them, if your heart is set on Titleists then he is fighting a losing battle. Best to do a bit of homework on who sells what locally and get the right guy for what you want, it spares any second thoughts later.

That is sort of what I would of said but the Pro in the OP said that he thought we knew too much and it was far too difficult of the 'Pro' to find out similare info......it would be better though for pros near each other to get together and cover as much as they could so that they could send each other business for when the punter 'wanted' something they didn't stock.....

 

[Canfordhacker]

Here is my old fashioned view on golf today.
So, if someone asked my advice I would say 'find a set you are happy with, get some lessons and go out there and enjoy them'.

Bob - at risk of again being accused of old fartery, I wholeheartedly endorse this. I found some sticks I liked, made sure they were the right ones for me, and just get on and play. I barely notice what is in other people's bags, and now there are so many posts on here it is the equipment ones that I find easiest to ignore when I'm cherry picking.

 

[Herbie]

I agree with Bobs comments almost entirely, Im not sure golfers on the whole are well informed and knowledgeable though.

 

[SammmeBee]

I agree with Bobs comments almost entirely, Im not sure golfers on the whole are well informed and knowledgeable though.

Obviously you cannot acccount for sheer stupidity but you may be able to prove otherwise.....but I would say today's shoppper, be it golf or otherwise, is more informed than most of the people 'selling' (or is that serving) in the shop......

 

[DCB]

but I would say today's shoppper, be it golf or otherwise, is more informed than most of the people 'selling' (or is that serving) in the shop......

Or at least we think we are !

 

[Herbie]

I agree with Bobs comments almost entirely, Im not sure golfers on the whole are well informed and knowledgeable though.

Obviously you cannot acccount for sheer stupidity but you may be able to prove otherwise.....but I would say today's shoppper, be it golf or otherwise, is more informed than most of the people 'selling' (or is that serving) in the shop......

Are you looking for a fight with someone? you seem to follow comments by people who have a different opinion and come out with numerous facetious comments and even petty attacks. I think the only person between you and I spamenbee, who has something to prove all the time is yourself or maybe I should list the comments you have made in many a thread making quote after quote followed by ridcule liken to that of a kid in the playground.

My end comment was simply that I dont think golfers on the whole are well informed and knowledgeable. what exactly is wrong with that?

How old are you exactly?

 

[SammmeBee]

Are you looking for a fight with someone?

No

maybe I should list the comments you have made in many a thread making quote after quote followed by ridcule liken to that of a kid in the playground.

Crack on

My end comment was simply that I dont think golfers on the whole are well informed and knowledgeable. what exactly is wrong with that?

Sorry I'll run all me posts through you for approval in the future

How old are you exactly?

How old do you want me to be......