Supplementary card question...

[Ethan]

I am not sure that cards scored in supplementaries are a soft option. At my club, SSS is 71, but CSS often drifts up to 72 or 73, and very rarely drops. But the SSS for the supplementary is always 71.

I haven't put in any supps this season, but have played them in previous years and my ratio of good:bad scores isn't any better with supps.

 

[Toad]

We don't get that option is Scotland, if we did I believe my handicap would drop a few shots.
I personally believe its easier to shoot low scores in what is effectively a bounce game than in medal play, it's a different sort of pressure with a competition card in your hand as opposed to having a relaxed round with mates.
I know you still have a card to complete but the atmosphere and feel of the round will be different than when in a proper comp.

 

[harpo_72]

I suppose it depends if you want a vanity handicap or one gained in comps.

i've played in 18 comps this year, and gone from 7.4 to 5.7 all in competition cuts no esr (we don't have them up here) or supp cards.

i'll have the one gained in comps thanks

not a pleasant phrase or insinuation ... But likewise I have calculated that you have been cut by 1.7 shots, a few 0.1s maybe but at 0.2 for every shot your under you have been around 8 shots under over 18 rounds, which indicates your playing better than your present handicap based on the Congu theory that your average round should be a few shots adrift of your actual handicap. So one could argue that by not putting in cards your protecting your handicap .. Or have little or no ambition to get to the level you should be at but want to have a few prizes I.e. a pot hunter ....
You see one can make an argument for and against any system .... But what I will say to is this, well played and keep it going! :thup:

 

[harpo_72]

We don't get that option is Scotland, if we did I believe my handicap would drop a few shots.
I personally believe its easier to shoot low scores in what is effectively a bounce game than in medal play, it's a different sort of pressure with a competition card in your hand as opposed to having a relaxed round with mates.
I know you still have a card to complete but the atmosphere and feel of the round will be different than when in a proper comp.

I agree with you about playing with your mates etc.. But our club allows people to sign up with their mates to play a round of medal golf, I disagree with that, I think it should be a draw.
However competition cards are just the same as supplementaries in that there is pressure to score, I don't see a difference myself in the situation, as Ethan states sometimes a competition is easier because the shift in CSS unlike a supplementary which is fixed SSS. Perhaps the success in competition is based on how you view it, if its a big deal you will usually have nerves, if its viewed as just another registered score round, it's not such a big deal. It's like practicing exams, those who are comfortable will always do well... Practice does make perfect or at least aid ones mind set.

 

[Foxholer]

So one could argue that by not putting in cards your protecting your handicap .. Or have little or no ambition to get to the level you should be at but want to have a few prizes I.e. a pot hunter ....

That comment might get you a bit of a (deserved?) kicking!
And as long as the majority have a similar attitude (and they seem to up there), it doesn't matter in terms of acquiring prizes- ie. whether a 6 should really be a 4 or an 8.

 

[harpo_72]

That comment might get you a bit of a (deserved?) kicking!
And as long as the majority have a similar attitude (and they seem to up there), it doesn't matter in terms of acquiring prizes- ie. whether a 6 should really be a 4 or an 8.

it may well do but the phrase "vanity handicap" deserves a knock back, I don't understand why you would bother? I mean you will only get found out. I was once accused of not being as good as my handicap, in a friendly knock, because I was just mucking around and enjoying the course. So the next time we played I took the fella apart and showed him, my handicap is not vanity, I want to be the best I can. I spend my days looking after our 9 month old and in the evenings I am released out onto the golf course. When my wife can spare a day from her business she has a mummy day and I play then. The weekends are filled up with social events, so playing medals is hard, I have to prebook days in advance and even then someone may invite us to a wedding. I have managed to get out there and put scores in and the supplementary system is great, not everyone has a predictable timetable. But to belittle it is wrong, and handicap adjustments made due to it are fair, if we are going to accept the CSS calculation as fair then we should accept the supplementary system as fair.
Would you like to play against someone like me off 8 knowing that I am good for a couple of shots under if not more? No I suspect most would not like to have me play at that handicap and would use the phrase bandit ...

 

[Foxholer]

You do seem to be a candidate for Supplementaries then - with only 9 comps, but keen to put you handicap on the line more often. Imurg may well have similar work/weekend vs comps predicament, so another candidate.

Playing 18 proper comps should mean Patrick (old chap) doesn't need to play supplementaries. And if Stevek can play 20-25 normal ones, he wouldn't seem to need them either - though not recognising Supplementaries would seem to be a breach of Congu/SGU rules.

 

[harpo_72]

Result in the cut was 0.8 off the 7.7 plus an extra 1 because of the ESR taking me to 5.9, which is great news! :whoo:

 

[Val]

You do seem to be a candidate for Supplementaries then - with only 9 comps, but keen to put you handicap on the line more often. Imurg may well have similar work/weekend vs comps predicament, so another candidate.

Playing 18 proper comps should mean Patrick (old chap) doesn't need to play supplementaries. And if Stevek can play 20-25 normal ones, he wouldn't seem to need them either - though not recognising Supplementaries would seem to be a breach of Congu/SGU rules.

Clubs in Scotland do recognise Supplimentary cards, its just few people use them unless they struggle with playing comps due to circumstances. Still no ESR recognition up here though, however end of year reviews can take care of that where required.

 

[DCB]

A good handicap convenor should be aware of players performing better than expected and act accordingly. If ESR is brought in up here you'll hear no end of greetin from some quarters of every club in the land as the software will highlight the situation automatically.

Sooner the better IMO

 

[pokerjoke]

There are so many ways to protect a handicap,and so many players do.
My hat comes off to the op,in the way that he wants to improve his handicap[for no apparent gain]
apart from the accolades that come with a low handicap.
It gives me a good sense of satisfaction,even if I get a small cut,and there are many on here
that feel that way to.
A golf competition will never be a level playing field,but one thing I can say about my own hp,
is its very real,and for that everytime I play I can hold my head up high knowing im not fooling
anybody.

 

[Foxholer]

Clubs in Scotland do recognise Supplimentary cards, its just few people use them unless they struggle with playing comps due to circumstances. Still no ESR recognition up here though, however end of year reviews can take care of that where required.

I work shifts so only get about 20 -25 comps a year but our club don't regonise supplementary cards.

Not all of them though?

Disagree that sup cards should trigger ESR also.

If your home club is in Scotland, why care?

And what about the guys who can really only only use sups - the ones we can agree that it's applicable to? An ESR doesn't have to be applied (in England/Wales). The guy putting the supps in may well be handing it in for exactly the right reason - that his ability isn't reflected in his current handicap. An ESR would be appropriate in that case.

I believe both Supps and ESRs work quite well 'darn sarf'. Another tool for good handicap convenors, a bit of a rein-in for aggressive ones and a simple aid for lazy ones - all geared to more consistency.

 

[Val]

Not all of them though?



If your home club is in Scotland, why care?

And what about the guys who can really only only use sups - the ones we can agree that it's applicable to? An ESR doesn't have to be applied (in England/Wales). The guy putting the supps in may well be handing it in for exactly the right reason - that his ability isn't reflected in his current handicap. An ESR would be appropriate in that case.

I believe both Supps and ESRs work quite well 'darn sarf'. Another tool for good handicap convenors, a bit of a rein-in for aggressive ones and a simple aid for lazy ones - all geared to more consistency.

It's not about caring its about opinion

I've said all along that supp cards are fine for those that can't make medals, my disagreement is that they should be used by people who can play medals but need these to get cuts, an example for you, Is it right that someone playing 10 medals and can't get a cut hands in 5 sup cards and gets a cut and an ESR? Surely that should raise some questions, I'm not suggesting it does happen but it could.

I'm all for the HC being a measure of current form with ability rather than ability on its own which it technically is just now.

 

[wookie]

I put in a supp the other week to see if it would effect my mindset the way a comp card does. Answer is that yes unfortunately it does I was still toting up the scores as I went thinking "what if this, if I can just do that" etc

I wouldn't mind betting that for the majority of people who struggle with a card in hand it is exactly that which is the problem rather than it being in a comp so can't really see why it would make it any easier

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I put in a supp the other week to see if it would effect my mindset the way a comp card does. Answer is that yes unfortunately it does I was still toting up the scores as I sent thinking "what if this, if I can just do that" etc

I wouldn't mind betting that for the majority of people who struggle with a card in hand it is exactly that which is the problem rather than it being in a comp so can't ally see why it would make it any easier

I agree, it would make no difference to me.

 

[rosecott]

Is it right that someone playing 10 medals and can't get a cut hands in 5 sup cards and gets a cut and an ESR?

But he still runs the risk of 0.1 if he doesn't buffer.

 

[Foxholer]

....Is it right that someone playing 10 medals and can't get a cut hands in 5 sup cards and gets a cut and an ESR? Surely that should raise some questions, I'm not suggesting it does happen but it could.

I'm sure that's why the initial implementation, in 2008, was quite restrictive. By 2011, Congu (or at least EGU, not sure which) had decided that it wasn't being abused.

And the answer to your question is 'maybe, maybe not'. If an ESR is triggered (in England/Wales) it's not automatically applied - so it does indeed raise a question. It's then up to the Handicap Sec'y to assess. No change there, except for an automatic prompt.

The essential thing is that Supps are done in the correct way - by nominating beforehand. There's obviously a bit of an advantage with the ability to select conditions, probably more relevant in Scotland. Handing in a load of bounce game cards isn't the way though.

The other issue is why folk are doing it. Ego/Vanity shouldn't be a consideration, though there's plenty of that in most golfers, especially around 9/10 and 5/6! Putting them in when 'in form' is also marginally dodgy imo - as that's ego too. Maybe everyone should use their allocation of 10!

 

[Val]

But he still runs the risk of 0.1 if he doesn't buffer.

If, but that wasn't the question though.

 

[Val]

The other issue is why folk are doing it. Ego/Vanity shouldn't be a consideration, though there's plenty of that in most golfers, especially around 9/10 and 5/6! Putting them in when 'in form' is also marginally dodgy imo - as that's ego too. Maybe everyone should use their allocation of 10!

Maybe it should be a stipulation of maintaining an active HC.

Handing in a load of bounce cards isn't the answer for sure, but I'm sure I heard someone got a good cut by doing that, a member of this very forum in fact. Their HC sec got that way wrong if true.

 

[harpo_72]

It's not about caring its about opinion

I've said all along that supp cards are fine for those that can't make medals, my disagreement is that they should be used by people who can play medals but need these to get cuts, an example for you, Is it right that someone playing 10 medals and can't get a cut hands in 5 sup cards and gets a cut and an ESR? Surely that should raise some questions, I'm not suggesting it does happen but it could.

I'm all for the HC being a measure of current form with ability rather than ability on its own which it technically is just now.

actually that was my first supplementary for 3 months, my initial ESR trigger score was a full on qualifier ... I have not abused the system I have used it and benefitted from it. So next time you show up at the sweep or roll up and everyone is grumping about some bloke always finishing in the points and money ... Make him do a supplementary card, and get the handicap adjusted with reality.