Strokes Gained - No Laying Up podcast

[MendieGK]

For any of you that still think Fairways in Regulation and Putts per Hole are important stats. Or that you should ‘lay up’ to a certain yardage

I’d really recommend listening to this podcast. Start tracking strokes gained and I guarantee it will open your eyes

 

[Mike07]

Hey Mendie... I completely agree with you, but when I looked into this I couldn't find any decent apps or software which made this easy to track. All options seemed to be writing down lots of info on a scorecard or lots of post round analysis.

If someone could come up with a good user friendly app (similar to Golf Game Book, or the other stat apps), then I'd be in.

 

[MendieGK]

Hey Mendie... I completely agree with you, but when I looked into this I couldn't find any decent apps or software which made this easy to track. All options seemed to be writing down lots of info on a scorecard or lots of post round analysis.

If someone could come up with a good user friendly app (similar to Golf Game Book, or the other stat apps), then I'd be in.

Hey buddy. Any form of strokes gained is going to require every yardage of shot to be recorded. I use the Taylormade app, and either press my phone every time in a friendly round. Or write everything down on another scorecard and do after the round.

This website is perfect for putting strokes gained stats -
https://www.golfrankingstats.com/strokes-gained-calculator/

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hey Mendie... I completely agree with you, but when I looked into this I couldn't find any decent apps or software which made this easy to track. All options seemed to be writing down lots of info on a scorecard or lots of post round analysis.

If someone could come up with a good user friendly app (similar to Golf Game Book, or the other stat apps), then I'd be in.

The Taylormade one is very good and Game Golf I think offers strokes gained now as well. It's a new way of judging progress and I agree with the OP in that it can make some interesting revelations over and above the normal FIR and GIR etc

 

[3565]

I used golfdatalab, before I got game golf. Recording every shots distances was a simple enough task but sometimes it detracted me from playing. The amount of info on data lab is huge, but doing both data lab and GG isn't practical.

 

[backwoodsman]

For any of you that still think Fairways in Regulation and Putts per Hole are important stats. Or that you should ‘lay up’ to a certain yardage

I’d really recommend listening to this podcast. Start tracking strokes gained and I guarantee it will open your eyes

Am looking at the NLU website - but not sure which podcast to check? Any pointers? (Seem to be numbered and titled with peoples names rather than subjects)

Edit: cancel that, - I'm an idiot ...

 

[Dan2501]

Listened to it this morning, such a good listen. Some great little stats in there such as the amount of putts outside 21ft made per round on Tour vs amounts made by winners, the breakdown of Tiger's stats which showed just how incredible his approach game was when he was at his best, really good podcast. Well worth a listen!

 

[MendieGK]

Am looking at the NLU website - but not sure which podcast to check? Any pointers? (Seem to be numbered and titled with peoples names rather than subjects)

Edit: cancel that, - I'm an idiot ...

Hi Mate, Mark Broadie is the creator of Strokes Gained so its that one. However, their podcasts are hands down the best golf ones available. I'd listen to all of them especially the pro interviews

 

[MendieGK]

Listened to it this morning, such a good listen. Some great little stats in there such as the amount of putts outside 21ft made per round on Tour vs amounts made by winners, the breakdown of Tiger's stats which showed just how incredible his approach game was when he was at his best, really good podcast. Well worth a listen!

Yeah i've told a few people already that moan about not holing putts outside 20ft!

the fact on average the PGA tour winner makes less than 1 a round is crazy! will certainly dampen my expectations!!

 

[Dan2501]

Yeah i've told a few people already that moan about not holing putts outside 20ft!

the fact on average the PGA tour winner makes less than 1 a round is crazy! will certainly dampen my expectations!!

I know, crazy stat - 1.4 made on average per tournament, 2.4 for the winner. I think the way TV coverage is done where we're constantly shown long putts going in gives the impression that they're holing everything but it just isn't the case.

 

[Depreston]

I know, crazy stat - 1.4 made on average per tournament, 2.4 for the winner. I think the way TV coverage is done where we're constantly shown long putts going in gives the impression that they're holing everything but it just isn't the case.

Absolutely when the full coverage is on (especially the weekend action) you follow the lads that are smashing it at the top of the leader board and they'll cut to the rest when they sink a massive putt/chip in

 

[Orikoru]

What exactly does Strokes Gained mean? It's like the golfing equivalent of the Expected Goals stat in football these days.

 

[USER1999]

What exactly does Strokes Gained mean? It's like the golfing equivalent of the Expected Goals stat in football these days.

No, it is strokes gained against the field. It is how one player does versus the average.

Expected goals is rubbish.

 

[Orikoru]

No, it is strokes gained against the field. It is how one player does versus the average.

Expected goals is rubbish.

Haha, I just mean in the sense that it's the 'buzz' stat everyone goes on about all of a sudden.

 

[MendieGK]

What exactly does Strokes Gained mean? It's like the golfing equivalent of the Expected Goals stat in football these days.

So effectively its 'expected strokes' from each position.

So if the average on a hole is 3, and you hit it to 8ft (Where the pro average is then 1.5shots), your tee shot has gained you .5 of a shot on the field. however if you then miss that putt, you've lost .5 of a shot on the field

if you hit it to 30ft on that hole, you're neutral to the field (average from 30ft is 2putts), but if you then hole that putt, you've gained 1shot on the field putting.

 

[Orikoru]

So effectively its 'expected strokes' from each position.

So if the average on a hole is 3, and you hit it to 8ft (Where the pro average is then 1.5shots), your tee shot has gained you .5 of a shot on the field. however if you then miss that putt, you've lost .5 of a shot on the field

if you hit it to 30ft on that hole, you're neutral to the field (average from 30ft is 2putts), but if you then hole that putt, you've gained 1shot on the field putting.

It sounds useful but nigh-on impossible for the average layman like me to figure out.

 

[nickjdavis]

No, it is strokes gained against the field. It is how one player does versus the average.

Expected goals is rubbish.

So for any given round I play at my club in a competition for example....how do I know what the average is? In my opinion, Strokes Gained is a totally meaningless stat for the average club golfer as there is no REAL data to make the comparison against.

Of the traditional stats I would say that Fairways hit is also meaningless....I can miss a fairway by three or four yards and still have an opportunity to hit the green....on the flip side I can top a ball 100 yards down a fairway and technically still be on the short stuff but with no hope of hitting the green because its nearly 300 yards away.

the stats that are important to me are (working back from green to tee)...

1) number of putts taken v. first putt distance
2) First putt distance v. approach distance....i.e. how close do I get my approach shot to the hole compared to how far away from the hole my approach is played from.
3) Greens in Reg
4) "Trouble off the tee % (TOT) "...i.e. how often does my tee shot put me in a position where I have no chance of hitting GIR.


So....if I have a large number of TOT's then I need to sharpen up my shots from the tee.

If my GIR's are low (where I wasn't in TOT) then I need to sharpen up my general approach play.

From there I can then work on improving accuracy into the greens by monitoring my first putt v. approach distance stat and finally, by tracking my number of putts v. 1st putt distance, I can work on improving my play on the green.

 

[chrisd]

An interesting podcast Mendie and nothing much to disagree with but as Nick has said it's virtually impossible to work shots saved when you don't know the other players stats. Certainly a better method at the top level though than GIR or FIR or number of putts

 

[turkish]

Yeah i've told a few people already that moan about not holing putts outside 20ft!

the fact on average the PGA tour winner makes less than 1 a round is crazy! will certainly dampen my expectations!!

And that we expect to make every 6 footer when in fact the pro's make less than 2/3 of these!!! I've read the book it's very good.

I'm a bit confused by that calculator though- what do you put for distance to the pin- is it from the tee, from the approach, or do you go back and do from every shot? Seems a lot of manual work.

PS Mark Broadie actually has an app (need monthly subscription) that you can enter all the shots and gives you an in depth analysis of every shot.

Again too much manual input for me- I've got Arcoss 360 which is based on his SG system and although doesn't give you actual SG stats tells you your relevant handicap for each element of the game which is enough for me to know what I need to work on.

 

[MendieGK]

An interesting podcast Mendie and nothing much to disagree with but as Nick has said it's virtually impossible to work shots saved when you don't know the other players stats. Certainly a better method at the top level though than GIR or FIR or number of putts

GameGolf - Taylormade App and loads of others have the data to compare against and you can choose your handicap to compare against....

Admittedly, it wont take into account conditions on that day etc (or be able to compare stats against people from that day), but no stats can.

Trust me its 100% effective.

i played a round on Friday, i hit 6 fairways out of 14. Many would say pretty bad for a 2 handicapper. However, i gained 4.5 shots off the tee against a scratch handicapper because i am so much longer than that average.

The data is there, and the apps/databases with that data are readily available

I will concede that without a tagging system it can take longer to 'plot' a round and get your data but for me its 100% worth it