Still classed as OB?

[swanny32]

This has happened a couple of times now and I need the rule clearing up. We have some rather annoying internal OB, one of my playing partners knocked one OB yesterday which was signaled to us by a shout over the bush on the 13th tee from the group in front. One of them appeared from around the corner and very kindly threw the ball back to the guy who hit it OB....it's my understanding that that ball is now in play and not declared OB? Am I right??

 

[Colin L]

The ball is out of bounds. It would only be in play if it had bounced off the other player and come back in bounds, not if he picked it up and threw it back or even caught it in mid-flight and threw it back.

 

[Foxholer]

No. Provided the ball came to rest OoB. Rule 18.1 is the applicable rule.

The guy who threw the ball back is an Outside Agency - and would have been able to confirm whether ball came to rest or not.

If it never came to rest (highly unlikely), then FC got lucky and plays from where OA tossed it. Of course, in that case, if he tossed it to the guy who hit it, and he caught it, then you have a different situation!

 

[Val]

This has happened a couple of times now and I need the rule clearing up. We have some rather annoying internal OB, one of my playing partners knocked one OB yesterday which was signaled to us by a shout over the bush on the 13th tee from the group in front. One of them appeared from around the corner and very kindly threw the ball back to the guy who hit it OB....it's my understanding that that ball is now in play and not declared OB? Am I right??

As stated, ball at rest and moved by outside agency has to be replaced.

There was a similar thread yesterday

 

[swanny32]

Cheers lads. What if an outside agency throws a ball outside of a yellow or red hazard?

 

[Foxholer]

Cheers lads. What if an outside agency throws a ball outside of a yellow or red hazard?

Same applies.

The Rule is 18.1 Ball Moved by Outside Agency. And that simply states what must happen (replaced) - irrespective of where ball was originally.

 

[swanny32]

Sweet, appreciate the help chaps.

 

[backwoodsman]

If it never came to rest (highly unlikely), then FC got lucky and plays from where OA tossed it. Of course, in that case, if he tossed it to the guy who hit it, and he caught it, then you have a different situation!

Not true - FC not lucky. Catching and throwing is a deliberate act & therefore wouldn't be an "accidental deflection" under rule 19. ball would have to be dropped (?) where it would have most likely landed had it not been caught.

 

[Colin L]

If it never came to rest (highly unlikely), then FC got lucky and plays from where OA tossed it. Of course, in that case, if he tossed it to the guy who hit it, and he caught it, then you have a different situation!

To add to backwoodsman's comment, the ball came to rest the moment the outside agency caught it. Then apply 19-1a

 

[backwoodsman]

To add to backwoodsman's comment, the ball came to rest the moment the outside agency caught it. Then apply 19-1a

Colin

Presumably you mean the provisions of the Note to 19 (which deals with "deliberate") rather than those of 19-1a (which deals with "accidental") ?

 

[harrisj]

He must.

 

[Colin L]

Colin

Presumably you mean the provisions of the Note to 19 (which deals with "deliberate") rather than those of 19-1a (which deals with "accidental") ?

Thanks. I was overlooking that the OA in this instance is a human being capable of deliberate actions.

 

[duncan mackie]

Colin

Presumably you mean the provisions of the Note to 19 (which deals with "deliberate") rather than those of 19-1a (which deals with "accidental") ?

I rather hope he means 18-1 if the ball is considered 'at rest when caught' - which I agree. 19 doesn't come into it at all!

 

[Colin L]

My brain is golf-battered what with the ups and downs of playing and all the drafting and re-drafting of yet another set of local rules as our course redevelopment moves on to opening a new hole with GURs and a temporary fence plus the decision to put in place an internal out of bounds on another hole. Phew! Let me step back and work my way through what we are talking about here.

Firstly, a ball which has gone OOB and is thrown back by someone.
If the ball was at rest and then picked up and thrown, it is OOB. [Definition of OOB]
If the ball was in motion, and caught, the position where it would have come to rest should be estimated and the ball dropped there. [Note to Rule 19-1) If that position is OOB, the player must proceed under 27-1. In the less likely event that it is estimated the ball would have come back into play, the ball must be dropped at that point and is in play. The throwing of the ball back to the player has no significance in either case: the moment the ball is stopped, the requirement is to estimate where it would have ended up and to proceed on that basis.

Secondly, the ball in a hazard.
If the ball was at rest when picked up and thrown, the ball must be replaced. [18-1]
If the ball was in motion and caught, then, as above, the position it would have reached must be estimated. Again, the throwing of the ball has no significance.

Golf fatigue has definitely set in. I will no doubt find out in the morning if anyone sees flaws in my summary.

 

[backwoodsman]

Nope, don't see any flaws in the summary, Colin.

I think the original flaw was that of considering the ball to be "at rest" when it was caught. Under the circumstances, the ball should be regarded as deliberately "stopped" and therefore Rule 19 and the Note to it apply.