Grizzly
Well-known member
Sadly, you can - at least at the higher amateur levels; the number of players who abuse steroids etc to bulk up is quite worrying.
Steve Thompson early onset dementia. Suing RFU and others
- Thread starter Captainron
- Start date
Sadly, you can - at least at the higher amateur levels; the number of players who abuse steroids etc to bulk up is quite worrying.
Leftitshort
Well-known member
Granted, but it’s not about the size of the hit necessarily, more about the repetition. Find Alix Pophams interview with BBC wales. The constant drip drip of micro concussions. I also think is disingenuous of ex pros to come out & say that you know what your getting into. Brain damage isn’t the same as a broken leg, and I’m not sure ignorance is a defence.the NFL knew about this in 1994.
Captainron
Big Hitting, South African Sweary Person
High impact contact sport has had a history of brain related injury in later life. Being good at something sometimes makes you ignore the risk associated with it or at least accept the risk that it carries.
Leftitshort
Well-known member
To ignore the risk, you’ve got to be aware of the risk. There’s a history of historical claims of negligence regards the workplace. Is this any different to working down a mine or with a hazardous material. You accept the risks, but you’d expect your employer to have a duty of care. If the clubs & the RFU have done this then there’s no case to answer.
In Steve Thompson’s case he talks of scrummaging sessions being arranged a couple of days after a loss at the weekend. Does making the players smash into a scrummaging machine 100 times sound like duty of care? It may not have been an issue, but if any of those players had exhibited any signs of head trauma they should have been excused. Were these processes in place or did a toxic ‘man up’ culture pervade?
I don’t know.
In Steve Thompson’s case he talks of scrummaging sessions being arranged a couple of days after a loss at the weekend. Does making the players smash into a scrummaging machine 100 times sound like duty of care? It may not have been an issue, but if any of those players had exhibited any signs of head trauma they should have been excused. Were these processes in place or did a toxic ‘man up’ culture pervade?
I don’t know.
Grizzly
Well-known member
I have to disagree somewhat - the size of the guy who is involved in the hits that cause those micro-concussions has to be a factor. It is not as easy as saying "otherwise we would have seen similar issues in previous generations of player" because there are obviously a lot of other factors at play (the professionalisation of the game, increased numbers of substitutes, the fact that there were a lot of other health factors at at an earlier age in previous generations) but...
...when I was first involved in the game, even as high up as county age group teams and pro trials, the props were a certain size, but constructed of a proportionate mix of muscle and, lets be honest, blubber. There were professional props who resembled sumo wrestlers. Compare that with some of the specimens you see now, who are the same weight, but mostly raw muscle and capable of hitting at speed - and I don't just mean internationally. I hate to think what the concussive force of Kyle Sinckler clearing out a ruck is, for example. When I had my trials, I got there not because I was particularly good, but because the idea of a 6 foot 3 17 stone full back was borderline freakish...now its commonplace.
When I stopped playing, it was clear that at least a third of the under 30s playing the game were using supplements - legal or injected - to bulk up. All those supplements make the collisions that much worse and increase the risk.
Leftitshort
Well-known member
I think we’re talking about different things. I’m on about multiple mini concussions that happen, for example, in training following a concussion, say in the previous game. It’s these smaller, seemingly innocuous events that can cause the long term issue. (From my understanding) I’m sure that these are managed well now, with head injury protocols, but were they 17yrs ago?
I’m not sure the players have a case, it would hinge on whether the medical info was available when these fellas were playing
regards substance abuse etc this backs up the case against the unions duty of care. If something is supposed, it needs to be investigated and managed. Otherwise players & the game will suffer
I’m not sure the players have a case, it would hinge on whether the medical info was available when these fellas were playing
regards substance abuse etc this backs up the case against the unions duty of care. If something is supposed, it needs to be investigated and managed. Otherwise players & the game will suffer
Grizzly
Well-known member
Probably about different aspects of the same thing.
I'm not sure at the very elite level we have it right even now - remember its only a couple of years since the England pack were doing 90 minute scrum sessions against two fresh Georgian packs in between Tests!
Captainron
Big Hitting, South African Sweary Person
I see that Nobby Stiles son blames heading the football for his dads deaths and there are some doctors that agree. Nobby was 78 years old though so he was well onto the decade of death.
There hasn’t been the massive raft of similar degeneration from others who played in his era though. Maybe some are more susceptible than others?
I don’t see sports changing their ways to eliminate head injuries (football taking away headers, rugby becoming touch instead of tackling etc) but I do see them making changes to the protocols managing these when sustained while playing/practicing.
There hasn’t been the massive raft of similar degeneration from others who played in his era though. Maybe some are more susceptible than others?
I don’t see sports changing their ways to eliminate head injuries (football taking away headers, rugby becoming touch instead of tackling etc) but I do see them making changes to the protocols managing these when sustained while playing/practicing.
The great difficulty I can see them having is how to prove that they would not have had dementia anyway. Heading may have contributed but to definitively state it caused it is wide of the mark. It is emotion talking, understandable, but not factual. As you state, the footballers in particular who have been diagnosed with this illness are all in the realms of when it occurs throughout the population normally.
