St Andrews every 5 years?

[User62651]

Guessing they want St A for the 150th Open. It has therefore slipped to 6 years between visits this time.

The courses are all good, St Andrews has hosted some great Opens and is as open to the weather as any. All these old Open courses have needed jigged about to accommodate technology but all you need is a close contest to make it exciting.
Having played only the Old Course and Carnoustie of the Open venues I don't have so many comparables but I loved every second of playing The Old, special place. That back 9 into the wind is pretty brutal and 17/18 is an iconic finish.
Starting and finishing in the town is great, place has a very special atmosphere.
2015 Open was pretty epic I recall, 2010 was a bit like yesterday with one guy way out in front so not so good. I attended day 4 in 2005 when Tiger won with Monty pressing, was a terrific day out. Went to Muirfield in 2013 too and although great too it doesn't have the same atmos imo. 2000 was epic with Tiger in his prime and 95 with Daly/Rocca seemed pretty good too.

Happy they do the 5 yr schedule for St Andrews.

Of the 4 English venues Birkdale looks streets ahead of the others, maybe the best of the Open venues.

 

[Slab]

The Tour de France often visits other countries, even the UK, so why not take the Open overseas! It is "the" Open after all and not just the British open.

Imagine if they took it to one of the links courses in the Netherlands or France. Some quality Harry Colt layouts over there.

(ps I know it's not going to happen)

Off topic:
Obviously Harry Colt was mentioned countless times over the weekend but does anyone know how much the course looks anything like what he originally did? I mean given how much they prattled on about new holes and changes to many other holes etc. Does it still bear any resemblance to his design

I mean if Andy Warhol did one of his doodles and they let Banksy at it for a couple of hours, how much change is needed for it to no longer be identified as the work of Warhol?

 

[azazel]

According to Iain Carter of the BBC, the rota for the next few years is shaping up:
2020: RSG
2021: St Andrews (150th)
2022: Royal Liverpool
2023: Muirfield
2024: ?
2025: St Andrews (back to the usual year ending in 0 or 5 slot)

So you'd think Birkdale, Lytham or, as Carter suggests, Portrush again for 2024.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

According to Iain Carter of the BBC, the rota for the next few years is shaping up:
2020: RSG
2021: St Andrews (150th)
2022: Royal Liverpool
2023: Muirfield
2024: ?
2025: St Andrews (back to the usual year ending in 0 or 5 slot)

So you'd think Birkdale, Lytham or, as Carter suggests, Portrush again for 2024.

If Trump does not get back in then maybe Turnberry will get 2024?

 

[Papas1982]

Why must it? Genuine question, I'm curious. And don't just say because it always has.

That's it basically. But not in a kind of pumpous way some may suggest rules are followed.

It's because links golf was how it started. Natural golf courses and that's what The Open is renowned for.

It would be like suggesting we relay courts at Wimbledon with clay, or Rolond Garros use grass.

 

[Grant85]

Not read all through this, but I think it is very unlikely there will be big changes to the Rota.

The last 'new' venue to make it onto the rota was Turnberry in the 70s - and in this century they have brought back Hoylake and Portrush onto the rota, as well as Carnoustie in 1999 - which previously fell off the active rota.

Personally really enjoyed Portrush. I think the course allowed for a good tournament and there were potentially quite a few players in the mix and it could have been very exciting had Lowry not played so well - or if the Saturday weather had not favoured the leaders to much - it could have brought a lot of guys into the mix by Saturday night.

Ultimately there are a LOT of boxes to tick in terms of being an Open Rota course - with regards to space for the spectators, stands, tented village, car parks, heliports, accommodation etc etc. And that's before wondering about the Golf Course, practice area, sternness of test.

I'd also imagine the R&A basically take quite a bit of control over the course in terms of long term planning / projects / maintenance in the years running up to an event.

Currently the active Rota is limited to;
St. Andrews, Carnoustie, Troon, Birkdale, Hoylake, Lytham, St. Georges, Portrush - with likely come backs for Muirfield and Turnberry (although maybe Donald shouldn't be waiting for a call).

Personally think that's sufficient. Gives everyone a go every 10 to 12 years, which is good to build up the anticipation as well as not hugely damaging members playing rights too often. Also sufficient time to make any changes and for them to bed in prior to the next event.

I do think there's an issue with St. Andrews in terms of too many weak holes in the middle of the round (weak in terms of testing the Pros). Possibly they could tweak the layout with regards to using a few holes on the new course - but I think that is unlikely. They will just set it up as tough as they can and if the wind doesn't blow - then 25 under will probably win it.

 

[azazel]

If Trump does not get back in then maybe Turnberry will get 2024?

Don't think it'll be up here three years in a row. Would the R&A go back to the north west of England two out of three years? Maybe not, which could leave Portrush looking good for 2024.

 

[Grant85]

If Trump does not get back in then maybe Turnberry will get 2024?

I'd reckon that is a possibility. They obviously do not want to have the Open there with Trump as president. Perhaps they would after he is not president and his company still owns Turnberry. Or perhaps they just don't want to deal with the guy on any level.

However really there is no pressure on them to go there. Yes, it's an excellent course - but the transport and attendances are likely to be poorer than most other venues.

I certainly heard 2024 at Portrush mentioned over the weekend.

 

[sunshine]

Don't think it'll be up here three years in a row. Would the R&A go back to the north west of England two out of three years? Maybe not, which could leave Portrush looking good for 2024.

The tournament typically alternates between England and Scotland, with Old Course every 5 years so sometimes it is held in Scotland 2 years in a row. Lytham will be "due" an Open by 2024, doubt they would return to Portrush after 5 years, typically courses seem to have to wait at least 8 years.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I tend to think, going back to the original question, that going back to St Andrews so regularly hamstrings the R & A. As Azazel quotes, would they go to Scotland 3 yrs in a row? How do they crow bar Troon and Carnoustie in, great Opens at both in recent years. I'd keep St Andrews as part of the rota, obviously, but with no special treatment.

I think Sunshine has it about right with his post above.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I agree fully with all the comments about this being a fantastic tournament but I'd be surprised if it goes back to Portrush as soon as 2024.

 

[Grant85]

All these old Open courses have needed jigged about to accommodate technology but all you need is a close contest to make it exciting.

I don't see this as the right standard to hold an Open to. A major championship should be about finding the best golfers. I cringe when I see tour events with winning scores at -25 for 72 holes. This is finding the guy who is best at making birdies and eagles, but clearly there isn't a lot in the way of bogey avoidance around some of the 'resort' courses the PGA and European Tour use from time to time.

It's why Francesco Molinari won at Carnoustie and Spieth and Tiger didn't.
It's why Shane Lowry won at Portrush and JB Holmes shot an 87!

Obviously weather comes into it and it is tricky to protect most Links courses without some wind, or firm and fast conditions.

It will be interesting to see what happens at St. Andrews but if conditions are benign, we could see a bit of a 'meh' winner.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't see this as the right standard to hold an Open to. A major championship should be about finding the best golfers. I cringe when I see tour events with winning scores at -25 for 72 holes. This is finding the guy who is best at making birdies and eagles, but clearly there isn't a lot in the way of bogey avoidance around some of the 'resort' courses the PGA and European Tour use from time to time.

It's why Francesco Molinari won at Carnoustie and Spieth and Tiger didn't.
It's why Shane Lowry won at Portrush and JB Holmes shot an 87!

Obviously weather comes into it and it is tricky to protect most Links courses without some wind, or firm and fast conditions.

It will be interesting to see what happens at St. Andrews but if conditions are benign, we could see a bit of a 'meh' winner.

I find it funny though, people always say about links courses in the rain & wind being a challenge, and yet we hold the Open in July which is near enough the middle or start of summer. That must be why it's in Scotland so often, so you can be more guaranteed a bit of shocking weather.

 

[sunshine]

I tend to think, going back to the original question, that going back to St Andrews so regularly hamstrings the R & A. As Azazel quotes, would they go to Scotland 3 yrs in a row? How do they crow bar Troon and Carnoustie in, great Opens at both in recent years. I'd keep St Andrews as part of the rota, obviously, but with no special treatment.

I think Sunshine has it about right with his post above.

Although there was an amazing finish at Troon, with the Stenson v Mickelson duel, I don't think it was a great event for the R&A. Attendance was much lower than other recent venues. You have to look at the support from the local council, tourist board etc. I think Troon will have a longer wait for its next opportunity.

 

[sunshine]

I find it funny though, people always say about links courses in the rain & wind being a challenge, and yet we hold the Open in July which is near enough the middle or start of summer. That must be why it's in Scotland so often, so you can be more guaranteed a bit of shocking weather.

Typical Open weekend seems to consist of me playing golf in lovely warm weather, wearing shorts in 25 degrees, then going inside to watch people shivering in the cold, getting battered by torrential rain and gale force winds.

 

[Grant85]

I find it funny though, people always say about links courses in the rain & wind being a challenge, and yet we hold the Open in July which is near enough the middle or start of summer. That must be why it's in Scotland so often, so you can be more guaranteed a bit of shocking weather.

I'd personally far rather see an Open played following a few weeks of dry weather on firm turf.

Conditions at Carnoustie last year, and Muirfield in 2013 were ideal and led to great events with worthy winners and multiple players involved on the final day.

Rain is a bit of a blunt instrument in terms of a challenge, in my view. But it certainly did it's bit to keep players over pay yesterday.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Although there was an amazing finish at Troon, with the Stenson v Mickelson duel, I don't think it was a great event for the R&A. Attendance was much lower than other recent venues. You have to look at the support from the local council, tourist board etc. I think Troon will have a longer wait for its next opportunity.

Interesting. My memory of that tournament was partly how nice the course looked but also the fabulous duel as you mention. That probably colours my memory of the event as a whole, in a positive way.

 

[garyinderry]

Pretty warm really blustery conditions today. I'd say there would be a few more JB cricket scores had they got that weather yesterday.

 

[Carpfather1]

Royal porthcawl gets my vote 👍(only because it’s 10mins down the road from me )plenty of top notch links golf around it too

 

[Beezerk]

Royal porthcawl gets my vote 👍(only because it’s 10mins down the road from me )plenty of top notch links golf around it too

First bagsies on your spare room 😆