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Sorry to bring this up again!!!!

Didnt notice this one had been opened up again.

I find the easiest way to understand the way it works is like this:

Imagine you have one of those big blowup beach balls. You are going to strike it with the palm of your hand to move it forward.

If you want it to go straight you will strike it with your palm square and hit the ball in the middle.

If you want to create anti-clockwaise spin to make it take off right then turn back left. You would hit the ball with your palm pointing to the right and cut across the ball from in to out.

If you want to create clockwise spin to make it take off left then turn back right. You would hit the ball with your palm pointing left and cut it across the ball from out to in.

So. Dont get hooked up too much on open or closed shoulders and feet or clubface, just try to understand the basics of what curves the ball and what creates the initial ball direction.

1) Initial ball direction is created by the clubface direction at impact.

2) The way the ball curves right or left is caused by the direction the clubface cuts across the ball at impact.
If it cuts across right to left then the ball will turn to the right. If it cuts across left to right the ball will turn to the left.

3) The amount of curve the ball makes will be decided by the amount the clubface cuts across the ball.

For example:

A Slice - clubface pointing straight and cutting across the ball sharply from right to left.

A Fade: - The clubface points slightly left and cuts across slightly right to left.

A Hook: - The clubface points straight and cuts across the ball sharply right to left.

A Draw: - The clubface points a little right and cuts across slightly from right to left.


Using this method you can easily work out how to hit a push slice, a pull hook, a pull fade, a push hook etc etc.

I hope this helps you to understand the way it works.
 
If that's in reply to my question, I understand what needs to happen to create a certain shot shape, what I don't understand (or isn't totally clear) is how to change my setup/swing to create it.

Maybe I should stick to (attempted) straight, with the occasional fade when I need it.
If I wanted to start at a bunker on the edge of the fairway and fade it back to the middle, I'd aim the club at the bunker and my body 5-10yds left of it. The reverse doesn't work for me, or not often enough to make it worth attempting.
 
If that's in reply to my question, I understand what needs to happen to create a certain shot shape, what I don't understand (or isn't totally clear) is how to change my setup/swing to create it.

Maybe I should stick to (attempted) straight, with the occasional fade when I need it.
If I wanted to start at a bunker on the edge of the fairway and fade it back to the middle, I'd aim the club at the bunker and my body 5-10yds left of it. The reverse doesn't work for me, or not often enough to make it worth attempting.

Not a reply specific to your question but to those that are not quite getting the ball flight laws.

I think you are over complicating the issue. In this case your clubface needs to be pointing at the bunker at impact (The ball will then take off towards it) If you want the ball to turn to the right of the bunker in flight then the clubface will need to cut across the ball from right to left. The more it cuts across the more it will turn. It is easier to cut the club from right to left if your stance is open to the target. But, it is not your stance that strikes the ball. Keep focused on the clubface and what it has to do.
 
If I wanted to start at a bunker on the edge of the fairway and fade it back to the middle, I'd aim the club at the bunker and my body 5-10yds left of it. The reverse doesn't work for me, or not often enough to make it worth attempting.

OK.. that's great..... like this? (yellow dot is the bunker)

gary1.jpg
 
and now I'm going to draw a line in parallel to your feet......... (this is the shot you ACTUALLY played) nothing has changed at all, only rotated and an imaginary line added...

gary3.jpg


It's a push-fade.


The difference between a push-fade and a push-draw is ONLY the swingpath!

If you look closely at the picture above you can see that your club is ALREADY approaching the blue line from the inside.... just not enough to play a push-draw.

Well call that swingpath1 and ballflight1.





Ok, so we need to adjust the swingpath only.... so we swing more from the inside.... that will now match the swingpath to the clubface and now we have a STRAIGHT-PUSH... like this.... (swingpath2 and ballflight2)

Gary3a.jpg
 
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Now we add another bit more inside to give us swingpath3 and ballflight3......

gary3b.jpg


A perfect PUSH-DRAW .....and all we had to change was the swingpath!

Are you with me so far Gary?
 
Yep, still with you.

I don't want to appear any more dumb than absolutely necessary, but how do I swing more from the inside without altering the face angle?

Does the face angle (with a neutral grip) not follow the swing path?
 
Yep, still with you.

I don't want to appear any more dumb than absolutely necessary, but how do I swing more from the inside without altering the face angle?

Does the face angle (with a neutral grip) not follow the swing path?

Not if its turned in your grip. Imagine turning the club slightly to the left so you grip it a little shut, then align your feet and shoulders slightly to the right. Now swing the club along the line of your feet and shoulders, the ball will move off in the direction of the shut clubface then turn left in flight. (Pull Hook)
 
Yep, still with you.

I don't want to appear any more dumb than absolutely necessary, but how do I swing more from the inside without altering the face angle?

Does the face angle (with a neutral grip) not follow the swing path?

In a perfect world and if you were the IronByron golfclub testing machine... then yes, but we're only talking a few degrees. The picture of the swingpaths I've added really exaggerates what is happening... the difference between being 0° or 4° from the inside is hard to show in an image :)

Try it next time on the range... set up square (using your V-Easy :D) and imagine a bunker out to the right a few yards to the right, not miles!.... but keep the image of the picture above in your mind, aim the clubface at your bunker and swing from the inside.. if it fades to the right of the bunker then it's not enough... if it goes straight over it you're getting there... and if it draws then voila!

You CAN close the clubface a FRACTION if you really want to, but just make your normal grip.


Now let's say you hit your first one and it fades... then we need to take measures to ENCOURAGE you to swing MORE from the inside (as per the picture)..... you can try 1 or all of these to varying degrees... even to extreme degrees to get you started and then gradually reel them in again as you get the feel for it...


Club shaft leans more forward... towards left knee (eg: down thetarget line)
More weight on the left side
Ball further back in your stance

and lastly...
Hands swing a little more to the inside on the takeaway

Once you have that picture in your head and you KNOW it's only swingpath it goes like this...

Set up square, clubface at bunker, little more weight on left side (5%) ball 1" back in stance, grip of club leaning 1" forwards.... hit the ball

Set up square, clubface at bunker, little more weight on left side (5%) ball 1" back in stance, grip of club leaning 2" forwards.... hit the ball

Set up square, clubface at bunker, little more weight on left side (5%) ball 2" back in stance, grip of club leaning 2" forwards.... hit the ball

Set up square, clubface at bunker, little more weight on left side (10%) ball 2" back in stance, grip of club leaning 2" forwards.... hit the ball

Set up square, clubface at bunker, little more weight on left side (10%) ball 2" back in stance, grip of club leaning 2" forwards.... left arm swing 5cm more inside the line than usual.... hit the ball

Set up square, clubface at bunker, little more weight on left side (10%) ball 2" back in stance, grip of club leaning 3" forwards.... left arm swing 5cm more inside the line than usual.... hit the ball

etc etc... have a play see where you get. The ballflight should tell you what is going on.... if it's starting 5yds out to the right then that's great... if it's not drawing then you're not swinging from the inside enough.

note: If you start hooking them left then you've closed the clubface (ball not starting right) so open it and start again! :) always start by getting the ball to go to the right a little.

If it starts nicely right and then curves left like a banana then you've swung too much from the inside and you need to backtrack your swingpath changes :)

Remember.... as it stands it's only the swingath that's stopping you hitting a nice push-draw.

Enjoy! :D
 
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Quick update.

17th tee today. Dogleg left. Tee is up so have to hit a draw or play short to the corner. Time to give this a go. Aim the club face where I want the ball to start and take my stance so I am aiming slightly right of this. Swing easy and.... lo and behold, produce a beautiful draw to the middle of the fairway.:)

Did it again on the 18th too.:)

Cheers guys.:thup:
 
Quick update.

17th tee today. Dogleg left. Tee is up so have to hit a draw or play short to the corner. Time to give this a go. Aim the club face where I want the ball to start and take my stance so I am aiming slightly right of this. Swing easy and.... lo and behold, produce a beautiful draw to the middle of the fairway.:)

Did it again on the 18th too.:)

Cheers guys.:thup:

'D Plane' Come on my son!!
 
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