Socialism ?

SocketRocket

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What a great illustration!

TEACHER FAILS ENTIRE CLASS: An economics professor at a local college made a statement that she had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on this plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great , but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
 

SocketRocket

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Oh joy another political thread ?

Wouldn’t you be more at home on a politics forum as that appears all you talk about ? Do you even play golf ?

Theres a clue in the Section name 'Out of bounds' Doh!

Go onto the golf threads and you may learn something from me ? Oh!! and threads arnt compulsary to read, so jog on and catch up on Love Island ?
 

Ethan

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An American interpretation of socialism, obviously. They just don’t get it. The country with millions of people entitled to no healthcare, and tens of millions in poverty. Capitalism and trickle down economics have really worked for the average person there, eh?

Look at Denmark instead, high quality state funded healthcare and education, good public sector salaries and pensions and much higher happiness scores than the US.
 

Foxholer

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What a great illustration!

TEACHER FAILS ENTIRE CLASS: An economics professor at a local college made a statement that she had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on this plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great , but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
That in no way describes 'Socialism'!
Maybe a criticism of 'Communism', but even that is dodgy!

To reply to the specific sentences....

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
Agreed! But you can (and our Government does!) alleviate problems for the poor by requiring the wealthy to contribute more than the poor do!
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
Doesn't apply, at least not evenly, in every case (e.g. Shares allocated/available by position in company).
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Well it certainly gave to RBS (and consequently RBS shareholders) without taking from anyone else!
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
Certainly arguable - and why conglomerates split off peripheral/non-core parts to separate companies!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
I'm inclined to agree! Got any examples?

Oh and FWIW, 2 further points...
1. I believe the Prof was correct - providing He/She checked that it was the opinion of each of them! there will Always be (relatively) Poor and (relatively) Rich, irrespective of the metric that defines 'Poor' and 'Rich'!
2. I believe the entire story was made up!
 
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jim8flog

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A possible false memory but I did read once that if all of the money in the whole world was divided equally amongst all we would all be poor.
 

Foxholer

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A possible false memory but I did read once that if all of the money in the whole world was divided equally amongst all we would all be poor.
Sounds reasonable! As 5th or 6th largest economy in the world and nowhere near that in terms of population, UK folk would end up poorer! US would certainly have to shift a lot of its wealth to the Indian Sub-Continent and much of Africa and Asia!
 

SocketRocket

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An American interpretation of socialism, obviously. They just don’t get it. The country with millions of people entitled to no healthcare, and tens of millions in poverty. Capitalism and trickle down economics have really worked for the average person there, eh?

Look at Denmark instead, high quality state funded healthcare and education, good public sector salaries and pensions and much higher happiness scores than the US.

Where does the Danish state get the money to fund the healthcare, education and pubIc sector salaries/pensions. I suggest not by low taxes and definitely from the money created by business.

Consumer Prices in United Kingdom are 23.60% lower than in Denmark
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United Kingdom are 21.36% lower than in Denmark
Rent Prices in United Kingdom are 15.31% lower than in Denmark
Restaurant Prices in United Kingdom are 29.09% lower than in Denmark
Groceries Prices in United Kingdom are 23.46% lower than in Denmark
 

backwoodsman

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Where does the Danish state get the money to fund the healthcare, education and pubIc sector salaries/pensions. I suggest not by low taxes and definitely from the money created by business.

Consumer Prices in United Kingdom are 23.60% lower than in Denmark
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United Kingdom are 21.36% lower than in Denmark
Rent Prices in United Kingdom are 15.31% lower than in Denmark
Restaurant Prices in United Kingdom are 29.09% lower than in Denmark
Groceries Prices in United Kingdom are 23.46% lower than in Denmark

And that proves what?

And I'd still like to know at which college the experiment took place?
 

rudebhoy

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Where does the Danish state get the money to fund the healthcare, education and pubIc sector salaries/pensions. I suggest not by low taxes and definitely from the money created by business.

Consumer Prices in United Kingdom are 23.60% lower than in Denmark
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United Kingdom are 21.36% lower than in Denmark
Rent Prices in United Kingdom are 15.31% lower than in Denmark
Restaurant Prices in United Kingdom are 29.09% lower than in Denmark
Groceries Prices in United Kingdom are 23.46% lower than in Denmark


You conveniently forgot to mention that average wages are far higher in Denmark, your price comparisons are meaningless without that context.

Average gross monthly salary (2018)
Denmark €5291
UK €2498

Average net monthly salary (2018)
Denmark €3270
UK €1990
 

Ethan

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Where does the Danish state get the money to fund the healthcare, education and pubIc sector salaries/pensions. I suggest not by low taxes and definitely from the money created by business.

Consumer Prices in United Kingdom are 23.60% lower than in Denmark
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United Kingdom are 21.36% lower than in Denmark
Rent Prices in United Kingdom are 15.31% lower than in Denmark
Restaurant Prices in United Kingdom are 29.09% lower than in Denmark
Groceries Prices in United Kingdom are 23.46% lower than in Denmark

Prices, prices, prices. Typically one-dimensional view.

Do the same checklist for education, healthcare, pensions and other benefits. Oh, and salaries are pretty good too. The Danes have a much better balance than we do and are much happier with their society than us with ours.
 
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