So is it good news for Brexit?
- Thread starter Alex1975
- Start date
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
I didn't want Brexit, but we have it. I also wasn't keen on Trump, but we have him. Perversly I do think he will be good for Brexit, and by sheer luck his election will save our Brexit from being the disaster most Europeans wants it to be.
jp5
Q-School Graduate
Trump is a protectionist... why do you think that will be good for Brexit?
hors limite
Assistant Pro
Why on earth will Trump be good for any potential US/UK trade deal? His populist mantra has been to promise to repatriate jobs - the aircon factory which relocated to Mexico where pay rates were a seventh of those in the USA is his personal favourite example. The only way to achieve this aim is to slap substantial tariffs on imports, slash business taxes and so create a protectionist environment for domestic manufacturers. I can't see how the UK will be treated any differently.
Got to mention May and her India trip.The Indians have straight away demanded more visas in exchange for any possible trade deal. How the hell can this be squared with the Brexiteers number one objective of cutting immigration?
An intelligent, coherent analysis of these difficulties from Davis, Fox, Johnson et al came there none! I haven't yet heard a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit - India and the USA aren't going to be the first either.
Got to mention May and her India trip.The Indians have straight away demanded more visas in exchange for any possible trade deal. How the hell can this be squared with the Brexiteers number one objective of cutting immigration?
An intelligent, coherent analysis of these difficulties from Davis, Fox, Johnson et al came there none! I haven't yet heard a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit - India and the USA aren't going to be the first either.
Alex1975
Tour Winner
Do you have any thoughts of your own or just verbose trot out what you read in the popular press?
hors limite
Assistant Pro
i don't know what i have done to deserve such a charmless response. The thoughts are my own. The conclusions are my own. The examples of the aircon business and the visa demands from India were drawn from the media - what's wrong with that?
If you don't agree with my views that's fine. Perhaps you could point out the faults in my analysis and educate me as to where I am going wrong? I think that you may find it just a bit more difficult than your first faintly insulting knee jerk reaction.
Alex1975
Tour Winner
I don't have a view on the topic as such, I asked a bunch of questions. I thought your "Why on earth will Trump be good for any potential US/UK trade deal" was a bit aggressive and then its just a rant based mostly on popular press headlines and your frustration of the inevitable.
No big deal, just seemed a bit chaotic and frustrated.
No big deal, just seemed a bit chaotic and frustrated.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
No it's not good news
One of Trumps big things was to "Make America Great" and to ensure everything works for US , including getting rid of "foreign workers" and foreign companies and getting the US nationals to do the work - so any trade deal will be biased towards to ensuring he gets the best deal for the US and not the UK or indeed the EU
One of Trumps big things was to "Make America Great" and to ensure everything works for US , including getting rid of "foreign workers" and foreign companies and getting the US nationals to do the work - so any trade deal will be biased towards to ensuring he gets the best deal for the US and not the UK or indeed the EU
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Interested by the potential trade tariffs. IIRC, the last new golf club (from an "American" company) I looked closely at had a sticker on it telling me that the head was made in China, the shaft was made in China and the grip was made in Mexico. So that's a 45% tariff on the guts of it and we hope he leaves a hole in the wall to pass the grips through……. 
I'm sure there are those on here more versed in the ways of business who will tell me there are ways round it, but on the face of it I'm not sure it's his best thought through policy.
I'm sure there are those on here more versed in the ways of business who will tell me there are ways round it, but on the face of it I'm not sure it's his best thought through policy.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Trumps whole modus operandi is the business way......make the company and you wealthier to the detriment of the collective good. That is why American businesses have been moving production of almost everything over to China....bigger profits. How he intends to get his fellow business buddies to repatriate jobs I don't know...but it wont happen overnight.
We though have been no different, and probably gave the Americans the thing they needed to not go with the established political route, when we voted Brexit. There is no "collective good" reason for us to have voted that way, especially when most of our limited production and systems in this country is foriegn owned.
I'm sure Trump does not like the EU with it's left leaning mantra's and ways, which is I accept one reason for Brexit, but it's also a vey big reason why I think Trump will sort a deal out with us, and probably quite quickly.
I'm sure nothing will be simple or easy in the coming years, I'm just hoping that we don't get left as that little island who got left behind.
We though have been no different, and probably gave the Americans the thing they needed to not go with the established political route, when we voted Brexit. There is no "collective good" reason for us to have voted that way, especially when most of our limited production and systems in this country is foriegn owned.
I'm sure Trump does not like the EU with it's left leaning mantra's and ways, which is I accept one reason for Brexit, but it's also a vey big reason why I think Trump will sort a deal out with us, and probably quite quickly.
I'm sure nothing will be simple or easy in the coming years, I'm just hoping that we don't get left as that little island who got left behind.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You either dont get it or maybe dont want to as it probably suits your own agenda. What the Brexit campaign wanted was to CONTROL IMIGRATION, that may mean cutting it but sometimes it may require increasing it but the desire is for it to be under our own control and not an open gate. I think you know this.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Hmmmmmm I thought exactly the same but my thoughts went back a few months.
President Obama, " vote Brexit and you are at the back of the queue". I remember slagging him off at the time saying words like keep yer nose out, so much for a special relationship.
President elect Trump " Uk, you are at the front of the queue". Er cheers Donald. Which one do I believe. Not got a clue.
But fully understand where Donny boy is coming from. If Donny wants to get American industry back up to speed he could start by putting a massive levy on Apple products being imported from China when it is an American company. If American companies do not believe in the American Dream/ workforce then his job is bigger than he thought.
President Obama, " vote Brexit and you are at the back of the queue". I remember slagging him off at the time saying words like keep yer nose out, so much for a special relationship.
President elect Trump " Uk, you are at the front of the queue". Er cheers Donald. Which one do I believe. Not got a clue.
But fully understand where Donny boy is coming from. If Donny wants to get American industry back up to speed he could start by putting a massive levy on Apple products being imported from China when it is an American company. If American companies do not believe in the American Dream/ workforce then his job is bigger than he thought.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Good Point Tash.
The moving of production to countries with cheap labour rates does give companies a cut in overheads and assists to boost profitability. It does not come without it's problems though, ensuring quality standards can be difficult and it can be difficult managing operations at such distances. The other problem is that when you move production people in your own countries become unemployed and social degradation can set in, this can make people dissatisfied with their politicians for the falls in living standards, the people then decide to vote against the status quo and for things like Brexit and Trump
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Isn't unemployment levels at their lowest in over a decade in both U.K. And the US ?
Because of companies being able to produce in the U.K. and being able to distribute with the EU allows them to base themselves here and create a great deal amount of jobs for everyone - same with in the US.
Also there was a report recently about living standards increasing across the country over the last 5 years.
Suspect that's all going to change soon enough though.
Also looking at a report that was posted the other day - the people that voted for Trump were more in line with the richer end of the scale.
Because of companies being able to produce in the U.K. and being able to distribute with the EU allows them to base themselves here and create a great deal amount of jobs for everyone - same with in the US.
Also there was a report recently about living standards increasing across the country over the last 5 years.
Suspect that's all going to change soon enough though.
Also looking at a report that was posted the other day - the people that voted for Trump were more in line with the richer end of the scale.
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Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
And most of what you say relates to me, exactly when it comes to mining. Shut the pits and import cheaper Coal from countries that have appalling safety records. Who gains, me = unemployment. Joe public = pays benefits. Big company = profits. Local economy/ communities are on there backside. Not just talk, the above scenario is Mansfield, the low skilled low paid, toilet of the East Midlands. Multiply Mansfield by X number of times in America and what you get is that people will follow Donny boy. Now it may seem that I keep banging on about the pits, but it is the same with knitwear in Mansfield, metal box that was in Mansfield, shoe co that was in Mansfield. Now all products made abroad in sweatshops, and no one is interested. The largest employer in the area now is sports direct at Shirebrook. Don't think I need to say owt about them, apart from it is not a shining example of a British company with a large local workforce.
Is it good news for Brexit? what happened in the USA not to sure, the problem is at this end and the mentality of British politics and business. When Shirebrook pit shut, big sweetners were paid to get the sports direct factory built there with the promise of jobs. Shame those jobs were not nailed down to locals. Why were joe publics brass/sweeteners paid to save a job in Romania. Business mentality needs to change in this country for it to benefit us.
what no one has actually said is how would Brexit be affected if Clinton had got in. For me I think she would of been in the same choir as Obamas back of the queue song.
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jp5
Q-School Graduate
Think you're right Tashyboy - these are problems that Brexit and Trump won't solve.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Employment may be up but just take a look at the quality of many of these jobs. Zero hours call centers etc. People used to have skilled jobs in manufacturing where they has pride in their work and employers in general gave them a full working week and a pay packet that never relied on Tax Credits and food banks to prop them up. Take a look around Liverpool, Newcastle, and so many big cities and what do you find, a lot of people struggling and bad employers propped up by the hard working tax payer. We need decent jobs for people even if we need to pay a bit more for it.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
They can do and hopefully will improve things for many. Time will tell.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
How long ago are you going back to to help you think of this land and time you see that used to happen ?
So much of the world has changed now that for companies to be successful it also has to be competitive financially both in the local and worldwide market.
Quality of job ? Is working in a call centre not a valuable job to some ?
UK manufacturing reduced dramatically because it wasn't competitive with the rest of the World - because it charged too much compared to other companies around the world that offer the same product but cheaper and a lot of the time better.
Where do you expect these companies to get the money to give these better wage packets from ? We have just voted to leave a market that gave companies a massive area to trade within - unless we find a trade deal that doesn't cost then companies are going to be hit with trade costs.
It's all fantasy talk it really is. Jobs just don't appear from nowhere.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
It doesn't matter how long ago better jobs were available, the point is they were better and paid a living wage. Of course jobs dont appear from no where, the majority appear from people that start up small/medium businesses and create work. If we want to buy a pack of socks for £3 that are made in China then that may make us feel we have a bargain when in reality we have put one of our own out of work and subsidised a sweat shop where in may cases child labour is exploited. IMO it's better to pay £10 for a better quality set of socks that gives someone in this country a job. Your precious EU is no answer either as it gives us nothing we dont have anyway. If you want to see how a domestic market that manufactures good quality goods locally then take a look at Germany, every town and village has somewhere that manufactures. It's not fantasy it's all possible even when there are people around like you with no imagination or answers, only problems.
