So is it good news for Brexit?

[hors limite]

You either dont get it or maybe dont want to as it probably suits your own agenda. What the Brexit campaign wanted was to CONTROL IMIGRATION, that may mean cutting it but sometimes it may require increasing it but the desire is for it to be under our own control and not an open gate. I think you know this.

Are you seriously suggesting that controlling immigration in a way that might lead to increased numbers was what the pro Brexit voters voted for? At the same time, can you illustrate how the Trump policies might provide the basis for better UK trade opportunities.
Finally, as you've read my post, perhaps you might like to address the question of a " a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit"

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It doesn't matter how long ago better jobs were available, the point is they were better and paid a living wage. Of course jobs dont appear from no where, the majority appear from people that start up small/medium businesses and create work. If we want to buy a pack of socks for £3 that are made in China then that may make us feel we have a bargain when in reality we have put one of our own out of work and subsidised a sweat shop where in may cases child labour is exploited. IMO it's better to pay £10 for a better quality set of socks that gives someone in this country a job. Your precious EU is no answer either as it gives us nothing we dont have anyway. If you want to see how a domestic market that manufactures good quality goods locally then take a look at Germany, every town and village has somewhere that manufactures. It's not fantasy it's all possible even when there are people around like you with no imagination or answers, only problems.

It a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something just because it's British made - people want value for money , they will look for as best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Why do you think so many high street businesses are suffering - why there is so many empty units in shopping centres. M&S the most recent British company to start to feel the heat - why do you think so many factories closed down over the decades - because they couldn't compete. People are already struggling and you expect them to pay more for items ? Pure fantasy based of nothing but pipe dreams

 

[Tashyboy]

It a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something just because it's British made - people want value for money , they will look for as best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Why do you think so many high street businesses are suffering - why there is so many empty units in shopping centres. M&S the most recent British company to start to feel the heat - why do you think so many factories closed down over the decades - because they couldn't compete. People are already struggling and you expect them to pay more for items ? Pure fantasy based of nothing but pipe dreams

Phil you say it is a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something coz it's British made. It is a fantasy to pay the same price for something that was British made, but is now eg Chinese made and not of the same British quality/ vfm.
You say People will look for the best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Course they will because they are on zero hours contracts, low wages, benefits, low skilled wages. Aldi's success emphasises that. So many high streets are suffering. See my last sentance. Empty units, last sentance.
But the big one the really big one. Why do you think so many factories have shut down over the years, Because they could not compete. Complete and utter tosh. These factories shut down because it was cheaper to move abroad and INCREASE PROFITS. Without a seconds thought to the generations of family's who had shown loyalty to to said company. At times companies in this country could net ever ever compete on a level playing field because of the successive government subsidies some countries were prepared to provide but this country would not. This country was happy to protect other countries jobs and not British jobs, and to an extent it still was, Brexit has now forced there hand.
Your last sentence that People are already struggling and prepared to pay more for items, is an odd statement to think of someone. People are prepared to walk down an uncertain path because the path they are on is one of depression.
What has happened to British industry with the help of this government is now happening to the armed forces, it is something that is a bit closer to your heart phil and one that when you relate to that. You will then understand what millions of Brexiters already feel.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil you say it is a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something coz it's British made. It is a fantasy to pay the same price for something that was British made, but is now eg Chinese made and not of the same British quality/ vfm.
You say People will look for the best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Course they will because they are on zero hours contracts, low wages, benefits, low skilled wages. Aldi's success emphasises that. So many high streets are suffering. See my last sentance. Empty units, last sentance.
But the big one the really big one. Why do you think so many factories have shut down over the years, Because they could not compete. Complete and utter tosh. These factories shut down because it was cheaper to move abroad and INCREASE PROFITS. Without a seconds thought to the generations of family's who had shown loyalty to to said company. At times companies in this country could net ever ever compete on a level playing field because of the successive government subsidies some countries were prepared to provide but this country would not. This country was happy to protect other countries jobs and not British jobs, and to an extent it still was, Brexit has now forced there hand.
Your last sentence that People are already struggling and prepared to pay more for items, is an odd statement to think of someone. People are prepared to walk down an uncertain path because the path they are on is one of depression.
What has happened to British industry with the help of this government is now happening to the armed forces, it is something that is a bit closer to your heart phil and one that when you relate to that. You will then understand what millions of Brexiters already feel.

The cuts to the Armed Forces has nothing to do with the EU etc

And can you tell me how leaving the EU is going to change anything you have mentioned ?

 

[SocketRocket]

Are you seriously suggesting that controlling immigration in a way that might lead to increased numbers was what the pro Brexit voters voted for? At the same time, can you illustrate how the Trump policies might provide the basis for better UK trade opportunities.
Finally, as you've read my post, perhaps you might like to address the question of a " a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit"

Yes, I am seriously suggesting that controlling immigration may sometimes lead to increased immigration, just like sometimes it may lead to less, it all depends on the countries requirement at the time and I am also saying that many who voted Brexit voted for that.

Regarding your question regarding Trump: I have not suggested his policies will benefit UK trade opportunities but since you ask me I can only think that if he puts us 'To the front of the que' and we are able to negotiate a tariff free trade agreement with the USA then it will be a benefit.

Regarding your last question and again it's not something I have raised with you but as we are not in a Brexit condition yet then the benefits are expectations. I expect the fact that we can create our own trade agreements, that we dont have to open our gates to a potential limitless number of people that dont have the skills we require, that we will not be paying a surplus into the EU coffers, our ability to control our own fishing industry, we can buy what we wish where we wish and many world prices are lower that the EU, we will not have to pay to support basket case EU economies. There you go.

 

[SocketRocket]

It a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something just because it's British made - people want value for money , they will look for as best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Why do you think so many high street businesses are suffering - why there is so many empty units in shopping centres. M&S the most recent British company to start to feel the heat - why do you think so many factories closed down over the decades - because they couldn't compete. People are already struggling and you expect them to pay more for items ? Pure fantasy based of nothing but pipe dreams

Of course people will look for cheap products but you dont seem able to grasp that buying cheap products from overseas sweatshops that pay people a few dollars a day and then our people having to rely on state benefits and food parcels to get by rather than paying someone in this country a decent wage is not good economics. M&S used to make great quality British made products but decided to sell cheaply made lower quality tat in it's place and they wonder why they have lost business! many factories closed not because they made poor quality products but because it was cheaper to move production to countries with lower labour rates. OK some industries suffered quality issues but not many. The reason you see many closed shops where I live is due to new out of town retail centers being built with free parking and having the same shops that were in the High Street, mind you many of them sell the same low quality tat made abroad.

The line I have highlighted shows your lack of understanding on this issue. If people had decent jobs selling products that we wanted to buy at a realistic price then we wouldn't have so many people relying on benefits and food banks, a place where they would need to pay less tax and spend their money as they saw fit on good British quality products.

 

[Tashyboy]

The cuts to the Armed Forces has nothing to do with the EU etc

And can you tell me how leaving the EU is going to change anything you have mentioned ?

The cuts to the armed forces have nothing to do with EU, well we agree on that. The cuts to the Armed forces are due to a government that wants to reduce costs, yet provide the same cover as previous. It is the same cuts that have been applied previously to councils, NHS, now the police and the armed forces. Yet the same quality of service is expected. Yet we are in the EU and this is the best we get. It is that, that people have voted agonist. Incidently as a Liverpool lad what's your thoughts on the Liverpool council proposal on a 10% rise in council tax in Liverpool. To Mantain services? Don't sound like things are improving in Liverpool, yet we are still in the EU.
You ask me how leaving the EU will help fix that? You know what I have not got a clue. But I do know that having been in the EU for Lord knows how long and continuing to stay in will not change anything. In my view.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The cuts to the armed forces have nothing to do with EU, well we agree on that. The cuts to the Armed forces are due to a government that wants to reduce costs, yet provide the same cover as previous. It is the same cuts that have been applied previously to councils, NHS, now the police and the armed forces. Yet the same quality of service is expected. Yet we are in the EU and this is the best we get. It is that, that people have voted agonist. Incidently as a Liverpool lad what's your thoughts on the Liverpool council proposal on a 10% rise in council tax in Liverpool. To Mantain services? Don't sound like things are improving in Liverpool, yet we are still in the EU.
You ask me how leaving the EU will help fix that? You know what I have not got a clue. But I do know that having been in the EU for Lord knows how long and continuing to stay in will not change anything. In my view.

The highlighted but is the important bit

People have the belief that things will be better but no one can say how - the campaign was in the back of words of making things better but no actual ways of how leaving the EU will actually make the UK better - there is a very high chance that it could actually make things worse - then what ? It's why people like Boris ran away as soon as the vote happened because he didn't know what to do next - and they still don't now

Its the same thing with Trump - "Make America Great" - but not actually how.

 

[Hobbit]

The line I have highlighted shows your lack of understanding on this issue. If people had decent jobs selling products that we wanted to buy at a realistic price then we wouldn't have so many people relying on benefits and food banks, a place where they would need to pay less tax and spend their money as they saw fit on good British quality products.

Really? I think that's just shows a lack of understanding of the real world.

First of all, you buy what you can afford. Secondly, you buy what you feel you need. If you're on the breadline you don't buy Hugo Boss polo shirts, even if they do last longer than George from Asda.

If you've got 3 kids wanting laptops for Christmas, and you're on the breadline what do you buy? Don't tell me, let me guess. 3x i7 processor driven with SSD's.. yeah, course you do.

So what is "realistic prices?" Bearing in mind we're not living in a communist state and prices are set by the individual company.

I guess you're having your Friday night tipple...

 

[drdel]

Utopia might be a dream. but for once could we have a post where the OP's question just gets answered with opinions and views and subsequent posters expend with their view without just tearing bits off the previous poster.

WE none of us know if the post Brexit or post Trump world will be 'better' (whatever that means) but what we do know is that rather like a company forecast we'll all try and exceed the forecast.

Global trade is under strain and things must change because China's position is unsustainable, the USA will retrench to some extent, the EU will address immigration and the ECB must restructure.

Consequently I reckon the future of the UK may be different than the past but if will, on average, be better- as that's what we will all work towards.

 

[SocketRocket]

Really? I think that's just shows a lack of understanding of the real world.

First of all, you buy what you can afford. Secondly, you buy what you feel you need. If you're on the breadline you don't buy Hugo Boss polo shirts, even if they do last longer than George from Asda.

If you've got 3 kids wanting laptops for Christmas, and you're on the breadline what do you buy? Don't tell me, let me guess. 3x i7 processor driven with SSD's.. yeah, course you do.

So what is "realistic prices?" Bearing in mind we're not living in a communist state and prices are set by the individual company.

I guess you're having your Friday night tipple...

The real world is the one we all live in, I'm not aware of another.

I am not arguing what life is like for people on the breadline and the reality of British life today. What I am suggesting is that the trend for more people to be living this way has been assisted by us manufacturing less and moving production of many commodities to other countries due to their cheap labour rates. That does indeed make it possible to buy a £3 pack of Chinese made socks or a £10 sweater made in India from Matalan but it does not help the people that worked in M&S clothing factory in Castle Milk that closed or the shipyards, train builders and vacume cleaner builders in Malmesbury that lost their jobs due to work being contracted to cheaper overseas countries.

I am not suggesting just putting up prices to people on the breadline, believe it or not I'm not that stupid. I am suggesting that as a country we need to start a program of manufacturing more so that we can create more meaningful jobs. Doing this would start to lift people out of poverty and I believe strongly that work is the best way to do this, paying people benefits to enable them to live a life without the hope of bettering their lot destroys them and social coherence. OK, when we start producing more we may have to pay a little more for some products but to me that would be worth it if it allows people more dignity and purpose.

Prices are indeed set by individual companies but it's the job of Government to create the environment where Companies are encouraged to create jobs. Some items will always be expensive but when you have a reasonable income you have hope. You may have experience of working in Germany, they do exactly this, they manufacture so much more and have a mind set of buying German.

To answer your final point. No, I'm not as I have a long drive to Swansea in the morning.

 

[SocketRocket]

The highlighted but is the important bit

People have the belief that things will be better but no one can say how - the campaign was in the back of words of making things better but no actual ways of how leaving the EU will actually make the UK better - there is a very high chance that it could actually make things worse - then what ? It's why people like Boris ran away as soon as the vote happened because he didn't know what to do next - and they still don't now

Its the same thing with Trump - "Make America Great" - but not actually how.

Did Boris run away? I was under the impression he was the Foreign Minister and aparently not making a bad job of it.