snide comments and accusations

[Bash]

I know Sundance has had a stellar season this year and gone from 26 to 13 and had much the same treatment

Sundance has only been playing a few years and put in his cards 1 1/2 years ago to get a handicap. He's one of those players who has a swing most golfers would die for. In the past year he's submitted over 25 competition cards and has been playing as much golf as me (3 or 4 times a week). Through lessons and much practice, he's got down to a 13 handicap. He's reached that 'wall' now where his handicap is presenting him with a real challenge and if he puts as much work into his game this year, will probably see his handicap plummet to 9 or 10.
The comments from members as to his banditry has been just friendly banter and members are generally impressed as to how his game has improved.
The difference with Papyt is he says he had a 7 handicap 20 years ago. What was his last official handicap though? and how long ago was that? Also, he plays twice a week and is (or was) still a 17 handicap. I know of two people who have joined our club and submitted cards with much more generous handicaps than at their last club and preserved them for competions other than the monthly/mid-week medals and stablefords. Has Papyt been submitting competition cards to try to get his handicap cut or just been playing friendly's?
If he's been making the effort to achieve his true handicap than I take my hat off to him.
If not, then the word BANDIT srings to mind

 

[Smiffy]

I was given a 17 hcp..... all well and good as i can only play 2 rounds a week

That's the bit I can't understand. Playing 2 rounds a week? There are some on here (me included) that would kill to be able to play two rounds a week. I don't see what that has got to do with it and why it should "justify" being given an artificially high handicap bearing in mind what you used to play off....
And as for the 62 year old now playing off 23 who used to be a 2 handicapper?????
I bet, at 62, he doesn't hit every fairway and all greens in regulation anymore. He might sometimes have a hot day putting or chipping, but I would imagine it is his lack of length that now sees him off such a high handicap. There's no comparison!

 

[chrisd]

And as for the 62 year old now playing off 23 who used to be a 2 handicapper?????
I bet, at 62, he doesn't hit every fairway and all greens in regulation anymore. He might sometimes have a hot day putting or chipping, but I would imagine it is his lack of length that now sees him off such a high handicap. There's no comparison!

To be honest 23 from 2 would be unacceptable to me unless the player had lost a major limb or something. I am 59 very soon and even though I am due to have a second hip replacement soon can still drive 250 yards or so. Providing you retain your health then you have to, as a 2 handicapper, have a good straight game,yes, you might lose 20 yards off the tee but most people around that age, that I go out with, retain their game with a better short game and putting.

I wouldn't care to meet either of these players in competition and would be embarrassed if I was either one!

Chris

 

[rosecott]

I have played golf on and off for 30 years and have been as low as 7hcp but having only been back playing for 3 years after a lay off due to illness i joined a local private club,i put my cards in and was given a 17 hcp all well and good as i can only play 2 rounds a week, i played in one of the board comps last month and played the game of my life,you know the one, hit every fairway,all greens in regulation and sank impossible putts and as a result shot 6 over par gross 75 a nett 58,i now have to face a constant barrage of abuse from members who either claim i am a pot hunter or a cheat i even have to suffer from snide back hand comments from the pro,has any one else suffered from having the round of their lives or been classed as a cheat for winning when not expected to.

Notwithstanding anything else I've said on this thread about how your handicap was awarded, if you have been playing regularly off 17 in qualifying comps, then there should be no complaints if you have a "bolt from the blue". We've all seen it happen - well maybe not a nett 58.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I tend to come down on the side of 17 being too high here. 20 years or not a handicap of 7 shows an ability to "get it round" and a level of experience that the average 17 man just doesn't have. Yes, 20 years is a long time but unless you are now in or getting towards your 70's I'd still say it was a major factor and at our club you would have got maybe 14/15. If you had been away from the game a shorter period, say 5 years then probably no more than 12.

That said, if the handicap committee were aware of this and chose to ignore it then they are simply not doing their job correctly and they should be getting the flack, not you. If you didn't tell them then you are bang to rights I'm afraid and deserve the critisism. Still a great score though but if you'd been off about 14/15 then it wouldn't have been a rediculous one.

 

[Matty]

There has been lots of debate thus far about the validity of the given handicap but I'm wondering if these comments are just the usual banter that would be expected after someone played a round of their lives and maybe the OP is being over sensitive.

 

[StuartD]

I was in a similar situation to the OP. I was out the game (after playing off 7) for 10 years. When i returned my cards should have got me a handicap of 19, but I got 12. When i started playing again i went back to my old club who were well aware of my previous handicap and it influenced there decision. They felt that I would quickly improve to that level and they were right as i won the 3rd comp i played in.

Had i gone to a new club i would of informed them of my previous H/cap when putting my cards in and let them make the decision from there. If the OP had done this then his conscience should be clear

 

[ADB]

Reading this debate with some interest as I will be looking to join a club in the next couple of years and was once a single figure player (nearly 20 years ago....where have those years gone!!). I now play to a self-regulated 16 handicap as a measure for friendly games, and forum meets, and have never troubled the prizes.

Reading this thread, my guess would be that declaring my golf 'career' would give me a handicap of 11 or 12 ish no matter what the cards I put in. To be honest, I would be very happy with this and believe, perhaps mistakenly, that a single figure player still lurks within - the added incentive of playing to a more challenging handicap would focus me to improve. My focus in year one would be to meet people, improve my golf and play in some competitions....probably in that order.

My opinion is that I would feel slightly embarassed winning a Club event in my first season as there would always be questions raised about the validity of my handicap when joining.

 

[palindromicbob]

Had something similar this year playing is societies. Was playing off 28 (was lucky to get get a double bogey!) but didn't have an official HC. Highest score I'd shot was 34 lowest was 16. One day I shot 38 which won the comp. Happened to be captains day so they retro actively cut me 4 shots as they felt it wouldn't be fair for me to win with such a high unofficial handicap. I simply told them to discount my score and wipe/adjust all previous scores on the record. I did feel that it was unfair for them to only question my HC when I scored well and never questioned it prior to this.

Needless to say the next outing I was met with "friendly" jibes.

"Watch out for the bandit" and "Where's your mask today" etc.

Submitted my 3 cards at my club and was awarded 21 despite never shooting below 98. Haven't scored better than 31 points in a Stableford since and my handicap is going up. Funny how they never questioned my handicap when I wasn't playing well.

Sounds like the same has happened to you.

 

[AyrHead]

It's lucky for you it's just snide remarks you're having to put up with. Personally if you'd come in with a score like that at my course i'd be tempted to give you a right good kicking. : )

 

[G1BB0]

I am off 28 and had an 87 for a net 59 -10... just never in a comp lol. can usually add at least 10 onto that with a competition card in my hands.

Balls to em I say, my mate of 10 (10.2) got a +3 gross a few weeks ago and romped it in a roll up, was a few mutters from the old guard as its our 1st season at the club. He happily handed his card in for a cut but was told it wasnt an official comp so wouldnt count for h/c purposes. Yesterday he went round in 87 so 18 over = .1 back... he can't win

 

[Hobbit]

Is a 58 lurking in all us, even if we play regularly?

I had a nett 58 playing off 4 in 1999 - 10 under my handicap in wet and very windy conditions. I'd been playing several times a week at that point for 30 years so I guess that made my handicap pretty accurate. I got the snide comments and barracking as I went up to collect first prize but was I a thieving bandit?

And that's why I'd defend anyone who's scored a 58 until all the facts are known. Its achieveable and has little to do with past or current handicaps. They're rare as hen's teeth without a doubt but doable.

 

[richart]

Anyone who has been a member of a club a good while, and played in plenty of competitions, would not raise such an adverse reaction. A new member in their first competition that shoots such a score is asking for trouble.

We have had problems with members joining in the last year, putting in cards and getting high handicaps. They then proceed to win competitions immediately, and on closer scrutiny been found to have played off much lower handicaps at previous clubs, allbeit a few years earlier. I understand we now take into account previous handicap records more than than just three submitted cards. Must admit I hate pot hunters. If you get a handicap that is too low, it will gradually rise to its correct level just as mine did. If you are given one that is obviously too high I am afraid you will need to get used to being called a bandit.

 

[rosecott]

The 2001 CONGU book says that, in allotting a handicap, "full consideration of previous playing history" must be taken into account. I suspect that this directive goes back even further than 2001 so am surprised that your club is only now taking account of previous playing history.

 

[Brookesy]

I know how you feel in a 4bbb on sunday we got 46 points i had the round of my life and shot 76 +3 (net 63) and my partner came in on 4 holes just all happened for me and i got 4 birdies on shot holes which helped alot, fair few shocked faces in the bar after lol

 

[richart]

The 2001 CONGU book says that, in allotting a handicap, "full consideration of previous playing history" must be taken into account. I suspect that this directive goes back even further than 2001 so am surprised that your club is only now taking account of previous playing history.

We did take it into account along with submitted cards. It is just we give it more importance now.

 

[Billysboots]

my mate of 10 (10.2) got a +3 gross a few weeks ago and romped it in a roll up, was a few mutters from the old guard as its our 1st season at the club. He happily handed his card in for a cut but was told it wasnt an official comp so wouldnt count for h/c purposes.

Absolute rubbish, and therein lies a huge part of the problem.

Any decent handicap secretary knows full well, if they apply the rules with a modicum of common sense, they can chop handicaps based on playing evidence. Rule 19 has long gone, but to my knowledge general play adjustments can still be made under Clause 23 of the CONGU rules. I handed in two cards in quick succession in the middle of last year (2 over gross and 4 over) when playing off 10, and, given that I had enjoyed a decent run in qualifiers, our handicap secretary used the additional cards to cut me a further shot.

It may well be that this doesn't accord to the strict letter of CONGU regulations, not least because I did not declare either round as supplementary rounds before I went out, but the way it was dealt with was surely in the spirit of the game.

To hear of handicap secretaries blatantly disregarding evidence that a player's handicap is false makes my blood boil.

 

[Billysboots]

Clause 23.7 of the CONGU UHS states that ‘In exceptional circumstances the
Handicap Committee may adjust the handicap of a player in the period between
Annual Reviews if there is compelling evidence that his Exact Handicap does not
reflect his current playing ability’.

There - I knew I hadn't dreamed it.

 

[G1BB0]

Billysboots, my mate wants a cut, he would rather be off a single figure h/c than win comps, apparently the rumour mill suggested he handed it in under duress (from the previously mentioned 'old guard') hence why it wasn't counted. My mate was furious and even missed the next couple of comps such was the sour taste.

 

[Billysboots]

Why should the suggestion that he handed it in under "duress" mean that it was disregarded?! Nobody has ever asked me whether I am happy to submit a card before acting on the numbers written on it.

I don't get that at all.