Smartphone GPS and Compasses

[Imurg]

Just a little point here....

Compassess were around long before mobile phones were invented.
It's always been illegal to take a compass on the course.
The R&A are not at fault just because someone decided it would be a good idea to put a compass in a phone.
Whether a compass gives you an advantage is a separate debate.

 

[Bobmysterkaymer]

Who uses a bloody compass to play golf........ No one.
Even if I had a compass in my pocket why the hell would I use it??????
I wouldn't! It's pathetic.
Anyone who complains about an iPhone being used for gps purposes wants shooting, hitting with a 7 iron then thrown in the pond!
No need to complain, the r n a need to sort this out and quick as more and more people have iPhones and use gps in someway.
By the way you can disable the compass by turning it off in settings and switching the location service to off!
Rant over!
And yes I use my iPhone with golfshot gps!

 

[Bobmysterkaymer]

I agree with shewy totally on this.

as a club golfer and im 150 yards from the green (by a 150 marker), i know its uphil i can see that, and i know theres a slight wind against as ive done the grass trick, now assuming the marker is correct, its down to me to take a club extra as its uphil wind against, or 2 clubs if its a strong wind... pretty simple.

now... lets do it with a iphone.

The compass tells me im heading north ( dont care as long as thats where the green is)
The gradient tells me its 12* uphill (can see its uphill anyway)
The weather app tells me its a 15 mph wind ( this is from a local weather station 10/15miles away and is an average, not an actual figure)

will it make my decision on club any different...

Not unless someone can come up with an super formula that is something like below

150yard distance x 12* gradient * 1.5 wind speed = new distance required

likewise if you reverse it for down hill with a tail wind.

150 yards distance / 12 gradient / 1.5 wind speed = new distance.

there will no doubt now be some smart arse that tries to work it out, but to me until there is a new found set of formulas for head and tail wind, with positive and negative gradients... all the info in the world isnt going to be any good if i dont know how to process it, or more importantly if i cant put a decent swing on it.

Exactly!!!!! Sort it out r n a!!! Compass weather Facebook apps make no decision on which club you select!

 

[Bobmysterkaymer]

Surely it doesnt matter if the laser has a slope function or not as you point it at something and it would tell you the distance. I am not sure on the exact extra distance to yards on the floor equation but I am saying I dont see the difference in that 1 can tell you the actual yards where as the other could tell you looking at a map version as the crow flies as such. What about such things where you can only see the top of the flag the gps cant tell you how far to the flag only the centre of the green where as a laser would surely tell you the distance to the flag.

The closest thing I have is a app on my iphone but I dont like using as I dont feel I a good enough to dictate Ibetween 5 yards as such at this moment and obviously the fact that its an illegal device I dont wish to become dependant on it then play in a comp and feel lost without it. I have never used a Skycaddie or a laser and dont intend to yet but I dont see the difference in what 1 can tell you exactly but the other cant use a couple of other things to get you the same reading. Personally I believe that a laser and a gps has there role but both can have its downfalls and advantages. There isnt one complete device as such to work perfectly.

Bit of a seperate tangent here but is there anyone here who uses golfshot who has downloaded there extra app where you can view a picture of the hole as you would look at it and click at items which tell you distances? Is it any good? I dont want to pay the extra to test it out so I am interested in if it actually works.

Never tried the landscape version as the golfshot app is awesome. But people annoy me who say 'it's not legal!' nnither at a lot of things! People can see what I'm doing and am not using anything else than the gps! God my round would take 10 hours if I was looking at compass, weather apps! There is no way I would know how to make this be an advantage when I can throw grass The air, or see the slope of the land!

 

[Imurg]

Who uses a bloody compass to play golf........ No one.
Even if I had a compass in my pocket why the hell would I use it??????
I wouldn't! It's pathetic.
Anyone who complains about an iPhone being used for gps purposes wants shooting, hitting with a 7 iron then thrown in the pond!
No need to complain, the r n a need to sort this out and quick as more and more people have iPhones and use gps in someway.
By the way you can disable the compass by turning it off in settings and switching the location service to off!
Rant over!
And yes I use my iPhone with golfshot gps!

THink you need to chill a little.....

I, too, cannot see a genuine reason why a compass should help you but that isn't the point. Compasses have been banned since Adam was a lad - it's not some new thing that's been thought up just to piss off iPhone users.
How many people take a compass on the course? None.
Why? Firstly because it's of no practical help but more importantly it's against the rules.
If the rules - going back 100 years - stated that everyone had to wear one white shoe and one black, guess what? We'd all be doing it - why? because it's in the rules
And anyone who complains about someone using an iPhone as a DMD in a competition has as much right to complain as someone who sees someone else kicking the ball out of the rough - why? Because it's against the rules. And disabling it isn't enough I'm afraid. If it's installed, the unit is deemed non-conforming - why? Because it's in the rules..
See a pattern forming here?

I think the fault lies more with the writers of the Apps.
Do they tell you that under certain circumstances the app/phone may not be used in competition?

 

[Bobmysterkaymer]

THink you need to chill a little.....

I, too, cannot see a genuine reason why a compass should help you but that isn't the point. Compasses have been banned since Adam was a lad - it's not some new thing that's been thought up just to piss off iPhone users.
How many people take a compass on the course? None.
Why? Firstly because it's of no practical help but more importantly it's against the rules.
If the rules - going back 100 years - stated that everyone had to wear one white shoe and one black, guess what? We'd all be doing it - why? because it's in the rulesI
And anyone who complains about someone using an iPhone as a DMD in a competition has as much right to complain as someone who sees someone else kicking the ball out of the rough - why? Because it's against the rules. And disabling it isn't enough I'm afraid. If it's installed, the unit is deemed non-conforming - why? Because it's in the rules..
See a pattern forming here?

I think the fault lies more with the writers of the Apps.
Do they tell you that under certain circumstances the app/phone may not be used in competition?

This is what winds me up, there is no advantage to be gained using a gps app. Kicking a ball out the rough there is!
The r n a need to address this and make the rules obvious, then I'll get rid of the App for comps and buy a garmin watch!

 

[Scottjd1]

THink you need to chill a little.....

I, too, cannot see a genuine reason why a compass should help you but that isn't the point. Compasses have been banned since Adam was a lad - it's not some new thing that's been thought up just to piss off iPhone users.
How many people take a compass on the course? None.
Why? Firstly because it's of no practical help but more importantly it's against the rules.
If the rules - going back 100 years - stated that everyone had to wear one white shoe and one black, guess what? We'd all be doing it - why? because it's in the rules
And anyone who complains about someone using an iPhone as a DMD in a competition has as much right to complain as someone who sees someone else kicking the ball out of the rough - why? Because it's against the rules. And disabling it isn't enough I'm afraid. If it's installed, the unit is deemed non-conforming - why? Because it's in the rules..
See a pattern forming here?

I think the fault lies more with the writers of the Apps.
Do they tell you that under certain circumstances the app/phone may not be used in competition?

I agree with you competely, they have just done an update of the Rules and another is not due until 2014 i think so we can all rant as much as we want- it wont change before then.

I used to use my iphone for distance in bounce games and whilst it is okay its not as accurate or as quick as a dedicated golf GPS system, also I was getting concerned that the battery life was draining very quickly and the time between charges getting less and less, add that to getting my phone (my main source of business) in and out of my bag on the course I just thought if I want to know the distances get a GPS/Rangefinder.

Now have a Bushnell and it is tons better and quicker (and legal).

 

[Imurg]

How much more obvious do you want it?

Do you have, on your device that you intend to use as a DMD, a compass, a means of determining gradient, a means of determining current temperature or wind speed, a spirit level or other such item that contravenes various rules?
If so then that device cannot be used as a DMD during a stipulated round (comps).

It's a obvious as it can get without listing every single device known to Man that can do these things and that's just not practical.

 

[Bobmysterkaymer]

How much more obvious do you want it?

Do you have, on your device that you intend to use as a DMD, a compass, a means of determining gradient, a means of determining current temperature or wind speed, a spirit level or other such item that contravenes various rules?
If so then that device cannot be used as a DMD during a stipulated round (comps).I

It's a obvious as it can get without listing every single device known to Man that can do these things and that's just not practical.

Mmmm, you've obviously never tried the golfshot gps! It's pretty awesome!

Looks like I might have to spend various poundage on a new device!

 

[Imurg]

Hey, not doubting the awesomeness of it at all - it's probably a good bit of kit.:thup:

 

[Yer Maw]

Blackberry and i-phones have a compass preloaded, plus you can get loads of free or paid compass/gps apps.

 

[chris661]

Mmmm, you've obviously never tried the golfshot gps! It's pretty awesome!

Looks like I might have to spend various poundage on a new device!

It doesn't matter how awesome it is, if it is on an iphone it cannot be used. Frankly I think it is pathetic that this debate is still raging, however I dont think it is all the R&A's fault. The rules have been there for donkeys and still the app writers make money from unsuspecting punters

 

[jammag]

thing is with the dmd I dont understand those that show you the green and how long the green is and the front middle and back point of a green fit this part of the rule "recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play (e.g. club selection, type of shot to be played, green reading or any other advice related matter); or "

Surely if its a long green and the flag is at the back you may take an extra club thus assisting you in your club selection by reading the green?

It says about the smart phone how the device cannot have anything installed on that could help in other areas, so any phone with a compass or a weather app that could tell you the temperature. Now thats fine they are the rules no problem with that. What I now have the problem is those who use there phones on the course whether its to tell the time or write a txt message or to check the latest football scores. How do we tell they are not using it for other things such as distance measuring. Most new phones now will be able to tell the weather or find an app for distance measuring. I just dont get how you can police such a rule when phones can do so much now. Most people look out for Iphones but realistically any phone can do such a job?

 

[BTatHome]

V

thing is with the dmd I dont understand those that show you the green and how long the green is and the front middle and back point of a green fit this part of the rule "recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play (e.g. club selection, type of shot to be played, green reading or any other advice related matter); or "

Surely if its a long green and the flag is at the back you may take an extra club thus assisting you in your club selection by reading the green?

the DMD is just showing distance measurements.

 

[Imurg]

t

What I now have the problem is those who use there phones on the course whether its to tell the time or write a txt message or to check the latest football scores. How do we tell they are not using it for other things such as distance measuring. Most new phones now will be able to tell the weather or find an app for distance measuring. I just dont get how you can police such a rule when phones can do so much now. Most people look out for Iphones but realistically any phone can do such a job?

Sometimes you just have to trust.
Having a phone on the course could save a life so for that reason alone you shouldn't ban them from being there.
We are trusted to not cheat, to not improve our lie when our playing partner is 80 yards away in the rough on the other side of the fairway etc etc.
Virtually all phones have access to t'interwebbything. If someone was using one as a DMD it would be out on every shot. If you're just checking footy results or texts then it'll only come out on the tee......

 

[jammag]

Yes I know that hence why I said about the ones that tell you front middle and back measurements. Surely if the pin is at the back on a long green that is helping you to assist in a different club choice?

 

[Imurg]

Yes I know that hence why I said about the ones that tell you front middle and back measurements. Surely if the pin is at the back on a long green that is helping you to assist in a different club choice?

But the only info it's giving you is the distance to the front, middle or back. It's up to you to determine where the flag is on the green if you're thinking of firing at it.
The DMD doesn't know........

You're collating all the available information to determine which club to use.

 

[jammag]

but surely it is advice as its saying hold on you do realise this green is 50 yards long which would be giving you adivce on reading the green length? With the phone thing I think its just so unpoliceable, if someone gets the iphone out when they are waiting for others to take shots because they could be in an unusual place on the course. The problem is its all down to trust because its very hard to police. It should maybe be re worded in a way where it cannot be misinterpreted?

 

[Imurg]

Most courses I've played have the length of the green either on the card - small strokesaver - or on the tee - map - so getting this info from a gps isn't anything you couldn't do anyway. It's also available on a full strokesaver.
And anyway, most amateurs are happy to get the ball on the green from 150 yards regardless of where the pin is.

As to the trust thing - well, the whole game is based on integrity. You can't watch everything that your opponent is doing, it's impossible to see if they are improving their lie across the fairway so trust is the only way. The R&A trust that we, as Golfers, will follow the rules to the best of our ability. If we cheat, then who are we cheating? Everyone, including ourselves.
If you move the ball whilst addressing it, you call the penalty. If you don't, it's cheating.
If you pull your iPhone out to measure a distance in a Medal it's the same - cheating. Not because you're gaining an advantage but because it's against the rules
I think the rule on DMD's has been made a lot clearer. As I said earlier, The R&A can't feasibly list every non-conforming device/phone as they would be updating the list almost every day.
They've set the criteria and it's up to us to follow their rule just like it is with all other rules.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

The images in my strokesaver book have an arrow pointing to north, does that make it illegal to use in a competition?