Smart Motorways!

[Tashyboy]

The mindset in Oz is obviously different to here in the UK. Many motorists here just will not adhere to speed limits and are so impatient. And therin lies the problem, getting people to SLOW DOWN!
Take today for instance: Driving on the M23 50mph limit section, its pouring down with rain, visibility very poor due to spray.I'm driving at 50 and the guy behind is almost in my boot, he suddenly shoots inside at breakneck speed to get in front of me. It was madness, especially as he had to slow down again because of volume of traffic. Why cant people just accept the speed limit and cruise through it in a safe way. There's a reason why the limit is in place - narrow lanes and to protect the workforce.
I often hear of people complaining about these type of road works on Motorways when there's been an accident. It's not the fault of there being a speed limit, but that of the careless/impatient motorist.

TRAFFIC NEEDS TO SLOW DOWN!

The second word in your post sums it up " mindset". 👍

 

[stefanovic]

I presume you didn't see the speed camera warning signs on the majority of gantrys.
As for accidents and fatalities, would you like to share the statistics proving these are more frequent on "smart" motorways.

The speed camera where I was caught is only partly visible to the side of the motorway gantry. It should be fully visible.
Not all the screens were working on the gantries. I requested proof and they sent me 3 images. The first was too blurred to reveal anything. The second and third were also a bit blurred and the text was illegible, but they did show a car on my inside undertaking me. I simply didn't believe the evidence, but failure to pay the fine could have resulted in court action.
The technology for all this comes from Australia.
What is even more confusing is that according to the RAC website a driver doing the speed limit + 10% + 2mph should not be prosecuted, but not all police forces obey this guideline.

Fatalities on motorways are up 8%.
Also read this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/comment/smart-motorways-scandal-time-end-deadly-experiment/

In any event I am surprised that you even use motorways and certainly not at high speeds in view of your "guardian of the environment" status.

I rarely use motorways these days. Long since given up on using the M6. A have a small stop-start petrol car which has an annual licence of £30. I have cut my motoring by 50% and walk or take public transport as much as possible.

 

[Imurg]

The speed camera where I was caught is only partly visible to the side of the motorway gantry. It should be fully visible.
Not all the screens were working on the gantries. I requested proof and they sent me 3 images. The first was too blurred to reveal anything. The second and third were also a bit blurred and the text was illegible, but they did show a car on my inside undertaking me. I simply didn't believe the evidence, but failure to pay the fine could have resulted in court action.
The technology for all this comes from Australia.
What is even more confusing is that according to the RAC website a driver doing the speed limit + 10% + 2mph should not be prosecuted, but not all police forces obey this guideline.

Fatalities on motorways are up 8%.
Also read this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/comment/smart-motorways-scandal-time-end-deadly-experiment/


I rarely use motorways these days. Long since given up on using the M6. A have a small stop-start petrol car which has an annual licence of £30. I have cut my motoring by 50% and walk or take public transport as much as possible.

Why should they be visible?
So people can burn along and slam on the brakes when they see the cameras?

So not all the screens were working..I assume you were able to see one or another of them as you state they weren't all working...do you assume a different speed limit in different lanes..?
And what the hell does it matter where the technology comes from? It comes from Australia so it must be defective..?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Why should they be visible?
So people can burn along and slam on the brakes when they see the cameras?

So not all the screens were working..I assume you were able to see one or another of them as you state they weren't all working...do you assume a different speed limit in different lanes..?
And what the hell does it matter where the technology comes from? It comes from Australia so it must be defective..?

Maybe we could start a “JustGiving” Page and pay his fine for him if it wasn’t his fault?

Who’s in?

 

[Imurg]

Maybe we could start a “JustGiving” Page and pay his fine for him if it wasn’t his fault?

Who’s in?

Pass.

On the inside....

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The speed camera where I was caught is only partly visible to the side of the motorway gantry. It should be fully visible.
Not all the screens were working on the gantries. I requested proof and they sent me 3 images. The first was too blurred to reveal anything. The second and third were also a bit blurred and the text was illegible, but they did show a car on my inside undertaking me. I simply didn't believe the evidence, but failure to pay the fine could have resulted in court action.
The technology for all this comes from Australia.
What is even more confusing is that according to the RAC website a driver doing the speed limit + 10% + 2mph should not be prosecuted, but not all police forces obey this guideline.

Fatalities on motorways are up 8%.
Also read this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/comment/smart-motorways-scandal-time-end-deadly-experiment/


I rarely use motorways these days. Long since given up on using the M6. A have a small stop-start petrol car which has an annual licence of £30. I have cut my motoring by 50% and walk or take public transport as much as possible.

There are abundant warning signs on the gantrys, the cameras themselves do not have to be visible.

As for the article you quoted as a source it contains no statistical evidence to support a claim that Smart Motorways are any more dangerous than conventional.

It appears to be little more than a rant against speeding fines which, after all, can be easily avoided

 

[CliveW]

What is even more confusing is that according to the RAC website a driver doing the speed limit + 10% + 2mph should not be prosecuted, but not all police forces obey this guideline.

The 10% + 2mph is, as you say, a guideline and not legislation. It is to allow for any discrepancies in speedometers. It does not mean you can drive over the limit and get away with it. Drive within the limit and you will have nothing to worry about.

 

[Imurg]

The 10% + 2mph is, as you say, a guideline and not legislation. It is to allow for any discrepancies in speedometers. It does not mean you can drive over the limit and get away with it. Drive within the limit and you will have nothing to worry about.

Exactly
Some time ago North Wales Police had a zero tolerance on speeding. 1 mph over and you could get done.
Speedometers are not allowed to show under the limit - if you're doing 30 they can't show 29. They can show up to 10% more, meaning that if you go by your speedo you'll always be within the limit.
Not sure the 10%+2 works here. People regularly getting tickets for 33/34 in a 30 and 45 in a 40

 

[MegaSteve]

Exactly
Some time ago North Wales Police had a zero tolerance on speeding. 1 mph over and you could get done.
Speedometers are not allowed to show under the limit - if you're doing 30 they can't show 29. They can show up to 10% more, meaning that if you go by your speedo you'll always be within the limit.
Not sure the 10%+2 works here. People regularly getting tickets for 33/34 in a 30 and 45 in a 40

Yea... My better half collected a few points for travelling at 32mph... Zip tolerance... She wasn't a happy lady... First and only ever points...

 

[stefanovic]

Here are the guidelines.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-drive-on-a-smart-motorway
Don't forget your hi-vis jacket (and lucky charm).
But what about that lorry which is just a few feet behind. Will it stop in time if you break down? There is no enforcement for safe stopping distances. This seems to have been the cause of many fatalities.
I think the only answer is to avoid smart motorways if possible and use only dumb ones where you can hog the inside lane knowing that a relatively safe place (the hard shoulder) is adjacent.

 

[clubchamp98]

But apart from that, in the absence of the hard shoulder and in the presence of heavy lorries, do you get out of your vehicle and have a 50% chance of survival or stay in your vehicle and have maybe a 25% chance.
If you get hit it won't matter much what speed the vehicle behind is doing.
Like golf, you will have to play the percentages.

That’s like the stay put advice in a tower block fire.
It’s easier said than done.
You would need a lot of nerve to sit in your vehicle in a middle lane.

Sometimes the old ways are better than technology.

 

[Imurg]

But what about that lorry which is just a few feet behind. Will it stop in time if you break down? There is no enforcement for safe stopping distances. This seems to have been the cause of many fatalities..

Absolutely nothing to do with smart motorways or even motorways in general - all to do with the attitude of drivers.
And if they're going to sit close behind on a motorway then they're going to be right up your chuff on any road.
Motorways are still the safest roads to drive on.
And another thing...no road is dangerous.
It becomes a dangerous place due to the people who drive on it.

 

[anotherdouble]

Absolutely nothing to do with smart motorways or even motorways in general - all to do with the attitude of drivers.
And if they're going to sit close behind on a motorway then they're going to be right up your chuff on any road.
Motorways are still the safest roads to drive on.
And another thing...no road is dangerous.
It becomes a dangerous place due to the people who drive on it.

Don’t waste your time with him matey. I am sure you along with the majority of the forum have got better things to do with your life👍

 

[SaintHacker]

Absolutely nothing to do with smart motorways or even motorways in general - all to do with the attitude of drivers.
.

IS the correct answer. Smart motorways work absolutely fine if people just obey the rules. If the lane is closed, move over, if there is a limit obey it.
How many A road dual carriageways have hard shoulders? Yet no one worries about breaking down on them, yet its still a 70mph limit road.
It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of a breakdown worker. Would they rather work on a hard shoulder with traffic wizzing by at 70+mph, or in a closed lane with traffic slowed to 40. I know what my choice would be...

 

[Imurg]

Don’t waste your time with him matey. I am sure you along with the majority of the forum have got better things to do with your life👍

Not tonight...I'm feeling grumpier than usual

 

[Foxholer]

Not for me. A nightmare....
Speed cameras are partly hidden on the side of the gantries.
I've been done for speeding there at 70 mph one evening when the motorway was actually clear.
...

So you are bitter about being (rightly imo) penalised for breaking the law! I've no sympathy for you! Get over it! And 'mend your ways' or the consequences will be worse for you!

I am, however, dubious about the safety of 'smart' motorways procedures, so only content with their 'dynamic' speed limit attribute. The KISS approach is hugely relevant to UK traffic imo! I do believe that 'undertaking' should be legal - up to a point, with erratic (weaving) use prosecuted by an appropriate alternative, such as Dangerous Driving.

 

[stefanovic]

I wasn't the only one caught out that day. The images I requested clearly showed the only other vehicle in sight going faster than me.
It could happen to you with a moment's inattention.
As for motorways being safer that is only because help is quicker to arrive than in rural areas, and it's just crunching the numbers.
I am always monitoring the M6 in particular even though I don't go there any more. There are always pile-ups between lorries and cars, like one this morning in Cumbria.
So what causes this? Clues might be found with mobile phone use and sleep deprived drivers. On other roads they are more likely to pull over.

Imurg, Foxholer...judging by the volume of your posts, do you live on this forum?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I regularly use the M2/M20/M25, and the Smart motorways are not the issue, its the idiots on the roads....and TBH I very rarely see much stupidity in the Smart sections, although the now normal use of the single digital camera to the side of occaisional gantries has taken the speed of many motorways down to a 70 max now as they are in constant use even if reduced speeds are indicated.
Having driven back down from Northumberland yesterday in the horrendous rain I can honestly say the M25 is no worse than anywhere else. The amount of idiots trying to race past the steady flow of traffic in the heavy rain was astounding, and something so many say only happens "down south" or on the M25.
It would appear the whole country has the desease of driver stupidy

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I wasn't the only one caught out that day. The images I requested clearly showed the only other vehicle in sight going faster than me.
It could happen to you with a moment's inattention.
As for motorways being safer that is only because help is quicker to arrive than in rural areas, and it's just crunching the numbers.
I am always monitoring the M6 in particular even though I don't go there any more. There are always pile-ups between lorries and cars, like one this morning in Cumbria.
So what causes this? Clues might be found with mobile phone use and sleep deprived drivers. On other roads they are more likely to pull over.

Imurg, Foxholer...judging by the volume of your posts, do you live on this forum?

Perhaps you got caught because you weren't paying attention, as well as exceeding the posted limit of the moment. Just think of all the pollution you created. Hypocrisy perhaps?

 

[anotherdouble]

I regularly use the M2/M20/M25, and the Smart motorways are not the issue, its the idiots on the roads....and TBH I very rarely see much stupidity in the Smart sections, although the now normal use of the single digital camera to the side of occaisional gantries has taken the speed of many motorways down to a 70 max now as they are in constant use even if reduced speeds are indicated.
Having driven back down from Northumberland yesterday in the horrendous rain I can honestly say the M25 is no worse than anywhere else. The amount of idiots trying to race past the steady flow of traffic in the heavy rain was astounding, and something so many say only happens "down south" or on the M25.
It would appear the whole country has the desease of driver stupidy

Especially those who break the speed limit and then moan when they get a ticket because they couldn’t see the camera🤣