Slow Play - Question

[One Planer]

Is there anything in the rules of golf regarding competition pace?

Picture this:

My father and I tee'd off yesterday behind a 4 ball club match play comp. As we Tee'd off they were just teeing off on the 3rd.

By the 5th hole we had caught them and were pretty much waiting on every tee from here on in. On the 12th, we tee'd off on a par 4 while they were on the green. We got to our balls with them still on the green and waited for them to clear.

After we had putted out we made out way to the next tee box where the last player in their group was teeing off.

One of the chaps in the group says.

"We can't let you through as we're playing a competition!"

Now, I thought that regardless of playing circumstance (Comp, bounce etc) you are supposed to let a faster moving group through?

My father, politely, pointed out that they had lost not one hole to the group in front but two, to which he was told

"Oh well, we're in a comp, sorry"

At one point, the group behind us were waiting with us on the tee box and the group behind them were finishing out on the previous green!!

Question: Does competition play take precidence over a casual round?

In short. Should a group playing in a club comp let faster moving groups through who are not playing a comp?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I would have thought a competition would take precedence but in the circmstances it would have seen sensible to have let you through so they could have continued their event without pressure from behind

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

I would have thought a competition would take precedence but in the circmstances it would have seen sensible to have let you through so they could have continued their event without pressure from behind

Agreed, chances are you would have been out of reach after one hole anyway so they would have only waited the time for you to drive, walk to your ball and then take your second shot.

 

[One Planer]

I would have thought a competition would take precedence but in the circmstances it would have seen sensible to have let you through so they could have continued their event without pressure from behind

Agreed, chances are you would have been out of reach after one hole anyway so they would have only waited the time for you to drive, walk to your ball and then take your second shot.

Which is pretty much what we thought.

I even suggested we tee'd off with them, then my father and I play the hole out and move on while they continue the hole. It was a par 3 after all.

They weren't having any of it!

 

[Colin L]

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster group to play through.
[From the Etiquette section of the Rules]

So where in there is there any mention of a group involved in a tie being allowed the privilege of holding everyone up?

The only circumstance I can think of for giving a match play tie precedence is if they are all square after 18 and need to get in front of folk starting off at the 1st.

 

[duncan mackie]

I am afraid this is another example of people applying out of date rules - in more ways than one.

If you go back to the 2000-2003 rules edition you will find the following

"
[h=3]Priority on the Course[/h] In the absence of special rules, two-ball matches should have precedence over and be entitled to pass any three- or four-ball match, which should invite them through.
A single player has no standing and should give way to a match of any kind.
Any match playing a whole round is entitled to pass a match playing a shorter round."

Unfortunately, whilst the R&A moved on and
1. removed any reference to the number of players
2. included playing through faster groups, of any size, even if you haven't lost a hole and
3. removed reference to matches/competition

many players haven't realised yet.

politely point out that the 2000 Rules edition is now been replaced .....

 

[williamalex1]

they should have waved you thro if they lost a hole on the game infront comp. or not . its only good manners. that being said if they kept up to the game infront ,you would just have to wait. just becuse you are a 2 ball , your not entiled to pay thro all 4 balls infront of you

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

Forgetting any rules I would say its just good manners not to hold ANYBODY up. If a group want to take their time let them, but not to the detriment of anyone else's game.

It would be different if they were being held up and wanting through so they should show you the same courtesy

 

[North Mimms]

They were totally in the wrong.

I'd suggest someone on committe who has a clue has a word with all 4 of them, otherwise the winners of the match will be holding everyone up again in a couple of weeks in the next round...

 

[pbrown7582]

Not a rule for comps to hold general play up, ignorance and lack of etiquette yes. If its a individual comp and they don't want general play in between the tee should be closed a goodly time after the comp to ensure there is no mixing otherwise a matchplay comp at any point should abide by etiquette of loss of hole or fast match to be allowed thru.

 

[Curls]

Unfortunately I've had this too OP, some folks own the course and you and your enjoyment of the day are quite simply not important to them. It happens a lot, but the worst breach of this I had was a Sunday when I was in a Medal, it was busy on the first and when it eventually got to our turn I noticed two guys finish the 18th and walk straight to the first. I asked if they were in a matchplay, they said yes they had started on the 14th and I said "well we're in a Medal, that gives you priority, off you go". They thanked me and teed off, and held us up from there on out. By the 5th (a par 3 where we caught them on the tee) it was clear the match was as good as over, one of them complained about how sore his back was and that was why he was getting spanked, he was obviously poor and the guy he was playing was slow but a good golfer, struck it well. We saw them shake hands on the 7th, and they continued to play the rest of the course, putting out on every hole and holding us up. When their match was over they knew full well we had priority, they were very happy to use that privilege on the first, and totally ignored the fact that they should have returned the courtesy on the 8th. Annoyed me no end and I know I shouldn't let it get to me but it definitely affected my game negatively (apart from standing around waiting for them I was just plain annoyed), a clear example of where they knew the rules/etiquette and couldn't give a hoot about them when it suited them because we're just youngish/new members and they own the place. Isn't there anything can be done about these guys?! I really feel like writing a letter to the club about etiquette (this happens a lot where we as fast and mobile players can't get through obviously slower players who leave their carts in our way, deliberately or not, slowing us down etc etc) but fear I will be peeing into a strong breeze and do myself no favours in the popularity stakes.

 

[duncan mackie]

I really feel like writing a letter to the club about etiquette.......

most committees really do want to hear about such incidents in a factual, polite, manner because most are the result of ignorance rather than bloody mindedness. As such the committee will be able to communicate where necessary in an attempt to avoid future ignorance....

Personally I am surprised that the club permits matchplay rounds to start at anything other than the 1st tee (if it doesn't expressly authorise it it's not permitted by the rules) - most don't because of the SI implications.

 

[Curls]

most committees really do want to hear about such incidents in a factual, polite, manner because most are the result of ignorance rather than bloody mindedness. As such the committee will be able to communicate where necessary in an attempt to avoid future ignorance....

Personally I am surprised that the club permits matchplay rounds to start at anything other than the 1st tee (if it doesn't expressly authorise it it's not permitted by the rules) - most don't because of the SI implications.

Hi Duncan,

I understand that, the club allows it, I wouldn't normally advocate it myself but I think one had so many shots on the other guy it didn't matter, looked like a very high h/c against a single figure contest, probably had a shot on almost every hole anyway.

In this case it wasn't ignorance of the rules, they used the rule to their advantage on the first, I'm sure many others would have just teed off but I did the right thing and assumed they would return the favour when their match ended, more fool me, frustrating to say the least

 

[ScienceBoy]

When in a comp or not I would rather let a faster group through, if following them is another competition group then is if fair to ruin there round as they will be waiting too? Let the faster group (even if not in a comp) through and pace of play will be restored for all!

When out as a single I pretty much always get let through, I carry a rule book just in case

 

[hackerjack99]

Whatever the rules say slow play is the single biggest problem facing club players today.You should just pass the slow players out, if they can't keep up with the group with the group in front of them or are holding you up just pass the menaces.
PG Wodehouse described slow golfers perfectly as the Wrecking Crew because they wreck my life!!!!:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

 

[williamalex1]

if there's any 2 or 3 balls playing near you , why not just ask if you can join them.[ comp. rules permitting] thats what golf clubs should be about , if we as a 2 or 3 ball see a singe player we will invite them to join us ,especially the good lookin burds . [ very few at my course i'm afraid]

 

[williamalex1]

Whatever the rules say slow play is the single biggest problem facing club players today.You should just pass the slow players out, if they can't keep up with the group with the group in front of them or are holding you up just pass the menaces.
PG Wodehouse described slow golfers perfectly as the Wrecking Crew because they wreck my life!!!!:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

as a single player would you expect to be waved thro all the games infront when no slow play is involved. get some pals and make up a 4 ball

 

[hackerjack99]

as a single player would you expect to be waved thro all the games infront when no slow play is involved. get some pals and make up a 4 ball

I never said I play as a single player, I play with others and they agree with me. It is obvious as to which crew you belong in with a reaction like that!

 

[williamalex1]

are you saying you should play thro all games in front of you . when there is a back log of games , because you are a 2 or 3 ball behind 4balls

 

[hackerjack99]

as a single player would you expect to be waved thro all the games infront when no slow play is involved. get some pals and make up a 4 ball

No, i am saying that if a particular group is especially slow then my group should be able to play throu. Can't deny that i would love to drive my way throu every fourball in front if i'm playing in a two/three ball! You have to understand where i'm coin from or do you always play in a 4ball?