Of course no one can guarantee to hit 100% GIR - I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that relying on a good short game to make up for a poor long game is not good golf, IMHO, because that is the limit reached.
Single figure guys are better for a reason
- Thread starter chrisd
- Start date
NWJocko
Tour Winner
Serious questions again Tim (albeit you haven't answered any thus far!)...
When do you plan on getting your handicap of <10 (hopefully)?
How often do you play and practice? (You just seem to do a lot so must have a lot of "spare" time to devote to it)
I just ask because you put a card up the other week (can't be bothered looking for the post) that (iirc) was well above that, but I may be wrong. So I reckon you must be practising and playing a lot so interested how much and how fast an improvement you're seeing.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
This consistent, powerfull & Accurate swing you keep baging on about, do you not think pro's spend hours with their coach on the range and course trying that, or do you think their to lazy and only play once or twice a week.
I work odd hours (evening and weekends) so as long as family is permitting (which they haven't been for the last month) then I can get out every day if I want to. Makes the social play a bit difficult though (no weekend golf).
I'm feeling more confident with the swing all the time. In all seriousness, that last card of mine you saw (+19 I think) had around 5 dropped shots from putts caused by the cored and sanded greens (which were almost impossible to putt on). If I didn't hit <10 I would be quite surprised.
Of course. I don't get the question. I want to shoot low scores. The way I've decided to do that is to groove a swing at the expense of on-course experience (because I beleive that spending 4 hours on a course does not improve a swing - I see it as wasted practice time). I know a lot of people disagree with this view - I accept that. I also accept that people want to play on the course instead of practicing. We all play golf for different reasons. I get my enjoyment from feeling 95% confident that when I stand over the ball I know where it's going.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
You're right, that's why ALL aspects of the game have to be practiced but, people will put more emphasis on the short game than the long game because....
Example
420 yard par 4
You've hit a good drive 280 yards. This leaves you 140 yards in to the green. You choose an 8 iron.
The ball is right on line, hits the middle of the green but catches a nasty slope which sends the ball off the green.
You've been practicing the long game like crazy and you've not practiced your short game.
You walk up to your ball which is only 3 foot off the green. You reach for your gap wedge, address the ball and then proceed to thin it across the green and into a greenside bunker.
You've no idea how to get the ball out of the bunker because you've not practiced that part of your game.
Luckily, you get the ball out but you're 25 feet away from the hole.
2 lucky putts later and you're putting 6 down in your card.
If you'd practiced your short game, you'd be putting a 4 down.
And remember, you hit the middle of the green but the game of golf conspired to shift your ball off the green.
NWJocko
Tour Winner
No wonder! As I said on Aztecs post if you were shooting +12 having just taken to the game then you're way, way ahead of the curve of a "regular" (tried to think of a non-offensive word there) newcomer to the sport.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
Ricky Fowler learnt the game at a driving range.
To be fair, I don't think I've ever said that the short game is unimportant. But I think if I were actually hitting the GIR as you have described above (but the ball has rolled off) I'd be more than happy with that, compared to having a long game which saw hit top off the tee, fat one short of the green, then chip on close to the hole for a par. The former has potential, the latter (imho) is a game hanging on by a thread.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
See this is where your arguement doesnt hold true.
Just because you know the distance of your clubs, can you ensure each approach is going to hold the green even if you hit it. (see AW's post above) re bad bounces, fast green that dont hold and you run through etc.
Just because you have hit the green, some greens are massive and a 3 putt wouldnt be uncommon, if not more if you take into account tricky tiered greens or multi tiered greens
Can you ensure even though you have hit the ball how you wished, its not going to be effected by wind etc. OIn sunday i hit a 3 wood exactly where i wanted it, down teh right hand edge of the fairway with a cross wind blowing right to left it should have come in, instead, it come in, across the left rough and out of bounds. I had my "super grooved accurate, powerfull, consistent swing working," but mother nature had her a game too..... have you practiced that?>
As I say, I believe it's about potential. Consider this:
Golfer 1) I have a good solid swing and most of the time the ball goes where I want it to. My short game is not as good as some others, but I hit GIR quite regularly.
Golfer 2) I have an inconsistent swing which rarely gets me GIR. However, my chipping is good which normally allows me to shoot lowish scores.
I go for Golfer 1, because Golfer 2 has already reached his limit (unless he now goes back to basics and relearns his long game from scratch).
Golfer 1) I have a good solid swing and most of the time the ball goes where I want it to. My short game is not as good as some others, but I hit GIR quite regularly.
Golfer 2) I have an inconsistent swing which rarely gets me GIR. However, my chipping is good which normally allows me to shoot lowish scores.
I go for Golfer 1, because Golfer 2 has already reached his limit (unless he now goes back to basics and relearns his long game from scratch).
bobmac
Major Champion
Looks like a hijacked thread to me 
NWJocko
Tour Winner
I do get your view tim and there may well be more to come (i.e. if you're not encountering bad luck then you'd be on the green rather than never at all in your example).
I'm just the complete opposite, really can't be bothered practising as I see it as wasted opportunity to play!
Do you really enjoy the practicing that much!? You must also be fairly serious about it as I just accept theres things I know could be better with practice but don't have the time or inclination. That may change when kids are older, or I'm in a different job with more free time.
I would warn you what someone else said that once you reach scratch then where? Will you lose your motivation?
I'll shut up now and go to the course to practice my short game.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Tim, I can see your view point, and am far from convinced you are wrong, you are just alot more focused than most golfers.
That said, unless you are practicing correctly (technically), you will just be reinforcing faults into your swing, and your practice is wasted.
This is why I don't practice much. I practice my short game, and yes, my long game has probably maxed out without a major swing rebuild, which I'm too lazy to do. So I rely on a reasonable short game to hit my h/cap.
It will be interesting to see if you get to cat 1 with your approach, and if you do, whether your handicap will travel well to other courses.
That said, unless you are practicing correctly (technically), you will just be reinforcing faults into your swing, and your practice is wasted.
This is why I don't practice much. I practice my short game, and yes, my long game has probably maxed out without a major swing rebuild, which I'm too lazy to do. So I rely on a reasonable short game to hit my h/cap.
It will be interesting to see if you get to cat 1 with your approach, and if you do, whether your handicap will travel well to other courses.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
i think to be honest the game needs to be broken down into better stages, Long game, short game and putting are not enough.
Off the tee (woods/Long irons)
Scoring clubs (6i/7i/8i/9i/Wedges)
chipping
Putting
may be more accurate. what your saying tim is actually not far off my game, not bad off the tee, and generally pretty good into greens although sometimes they dont hold. but again we are back to this point that you need to be able to scrable to score, this is key whether your pro, single figures or any HC. Wouldnt you agree.
(Obviously I'm not an expert - I accept that, but I am the master of my own destiny so have very strong opinions on my own game!)
I agree with your classifications. For me, the most important shot in golf is the approach to the green. How many times do we see the top players drop 150 yard shots a few feet from the pin? The other scoring shot is the long putt, but I think for our public courses sinking 40 footers is more luck than judgement. So the only scoring we have is the shot to the green. Now, to make that shot to the green easier we need them to be shorter, hence distance off the tee (otherwise we're left with 200 yard 4 irons instead of 130 PW). ALL IMHO.
Surely scrambling is a way to save otherwise-dropped shots? If we're not on the green putting for a birdie then the best we can ever realistically hope for is par. A tour pro would (on our amateur courses) hit 17 of the 18 greens and putt birdies on half of those without the need to scramble to score low 60s.
That's what I'm aiming for - that solid long game and accurate approach play - all based on that powerful swing. (Now when I say powerful - I'm not talking about long-drive stuff - just enough to match the tour pros who can drive 270 on average (including their bad shots), so I suppose an average fairway shot would be 285? In fact it's easier just to compare by using swing speed - anything over 115mph for the drive is excellent).
The long game is best learned on the range, imho.
I agree with your classifications. For me, the most important shot in golf is the approach to the green. How many times do we see the top players drop 150 yard shots a few feet from the pin? The other scoring shot is the long putt, but I think for our public courses sinking 40 footers is more luck than judgement. So the only scoring we have is the shot to the green. Now, to make that shot to the green easier we need them to be shorter, hence distance off the tee (otherwise we're left with 200 yard 4 irons instead of 130 PW). ALL IMHO.
Surely scrambling is a way to save otherwise-dropped shots? If we're not on the green putting for a birdie then the best we can ever realistically hope for is par. A tour pro would (on our amateur courses) hit 17 of the 18 greens and putt birdies on half of those without the need to scramble to score low 60s.
That's what I'm aiming for - that solid long game and accurate approach play - all based on that powerful swing. (Now when I say powerful - I'm not talking about long-drive stuff - just enough to match the tour pros who can drive 270 on average (including their bad shots), so I suppose an average fairway shot would be 285? In fact it's easier just to compare by using swing speed - anything over 115mph for the drive is excellent).
The long game is best learned on the range, imho.
bobmac
Major Champion
Hit it as far as you can hit it straight.
When you stop hitting it straight, you're trying to hit it too far.
IMHPO
When you stop hitting it straight, you're trying to hit it too far.
IMHPO
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
Tim, I agree with your summation and I wish you the best of luck with your quest.
Just make sure that when you're practicing on the range (or the course) that you're practicing the right things. I don't know if you're having lessons, etc but it's very easy to practice 'faults' without proper guidance.
I'm not sure that's allowed.
Yes, will do. I do see a pro occasionally (today, in fact), and I'm very particular about my swing - though every so often on the range I'll just stand and hit a whole bucket as hard and fast as possible just for the fun of it! It's actually a good a cardio workout.
