Should you be able to get relief from divots in the fairway?

[Orikoru]

And just ruin golf as a game?

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!

Err....yes, if its permitted, i.e. you are on the fairway. Why wouldn't you? Lift, clean and place.

Eh? Why would you bother if you don't need to? If the ground is good and the ball is clean you just hit it and move on. Otherwise you're just wasting time.

 

[clubchamp98]

No way, Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it.

Replace or fill your divots and its a non issue.

“Play the ball where it lies” Do you advocate playing your ball off a wrong green.?
Then if you take a divot that’s fine.
The birds at my club remove divots looking for worms. (I have seen them doing it early morning!)
So if the divot on the green is removed by a bird you must putt out of the divot if your unlucky enough to land in it.

There are so many exemptions to “play it as it lies”
Should the pros play from the middle of a grandstand?
After all it was there when they teed off.

 

[USER1999]

I don't get how people who have taken up a sport, have played it for about 30 seconds, feel the need to change the rules. They are what makes golf, golf. Yep, some are idiosyncratic, some are plain baffling, but that is what makes golf great. Is it fair? No. But so what. It was never meant to be.

If every shot had the expected outcome, how boring would it be?

 

[MarkT]

I've played golf for 40 years and must have finished in fewer than 10 divots. Which maybe says a lot about my driving. There are few things more satisfying than getting to the bottom of the ball from one and it would just feel weird picking it up and moving it in the middle of summer

 

[sweaty sock]

To put it into perspective, say it happens twice a season (which it doesnt, but for the sake of argument...) and everytime it happens it costs you a full shot (which it doesnt, but for the sake of argument...). Thats 2 shots in a year. Who cares. Nobody.

So you're talking about removing one of the most
fundamental tenets of the game, for the sake of 2 shots a year.

Not to mention removing the skill of being able to hit from a bad lie.

Or removing the mental strength required to get through it without crying your eyes out about it being unfair.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

“Play the ball where it lies” Do you advocate playing your ball off a wrong green.?
Then if you take a divot that’s fine.
The birds at my club remove divots looking for worms. (I have seen them doing it early morning!)
So if the divot on the green is removed by a bird you must putt out of the divot if your unlucky enough to land in it.

There are so many exemptions to “play it as it lies”
Should the pros play from the middle of a grandstand?
After all it was there when they teed off.

No the pro should not play from a grandstand, he should be obliged to take a drop under penalty.

 

[clubchamp98]

So you want to be able to pick the ball up and place it on a nice lie every time you hit the fairway ?!

Is that not just dumbing down the sport to try and make it easier for people.

Do you not understand the basic principles of golf - that would be like stopping tackling in football.

Well that is basically happening now in football.
If you get the ball first and contact the player it’s yellow?
But that’s another thread.

 

[sweaty sock]

“Play the ball where it lies” Do you advocate playing your ball off a wrong green.?
Then if you take a divot that’s fine.
The birds at my club remove divots looking for worms. (I have seen them doing it early morning!)
So if the divot on the green is removed by a bird you must putt out of the divot if your unlucky enough to land in it.

There are so many exemptions to “play it as it lies”
Should the pros play from the middle of a grandstand?
After all it was there when they teed off.

Just do what you like, tee it up on every shot. Infact just write '1', all the way down the score column. Nobody forces you to play to the rules.

 

[Mandofred]

Wow, how hard would it have been to 'un-peel' it back into the ground and step on it???
I just hate the divots that you don't see where it went and you spend the next few minutes hunting it, or those ones which disintegrate in mid air!

This doesn't happen to me much during the "good months", but Winter?.....all the time when I'm in the rough and it's sloppy. I just give myself 10 seconds or so to find it (or pieces of it).... I'm not going to spend a lot of time looking for it. Quite often our group just says what the heck, play off your mat anywhere....makes me feel better about NOT taking a big soggy divot that you can only find bits of at the best.

I must have bad luck, I'm in a LOT more divots than "couple of times a year" that a bunch of people are claiming.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've played golf for 40 years and must have finished in fewer than 10 divots. Which maybe says a lot about my driving. There are few things more satisfying than getting to the bottom of the ball from one and it would just feel weird picking it up and moving it in the middle of summer

Indeed - and imagine how an opponent of yours would feel if his ball came to rest in the middle of the fairway - but sat on a great big sycamore leaf. You could move your ball out of the divot hole getting free relief from it; your opponent would be unable to remove the leaf without moving his ball and so would have to play it as it lay...

Both are just about equally unlikely to happen in the run of things - and so we have it today that the outcome in both events is the same - play ball as lies - there is no issue - and no issue = no debate = no contention = no conflict. Because holy moly - the last thing we need when playing our game is conflict...

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yes I get that we’re not all the same thank god.
The problem is most golfers know what a divot is.
But the waters are muddied by all the variations in stages of repair.
My opinion is made of my experience of them ,other opinions are avaliable .
But think a seeded divot should be GUR.

I can sympathise with your point on seeded divots being GUR as that is precisely what it is.

There would, however, be problems in determining when it cease to be a seeded divot once the seed germinated. Some grass growth and still some seed.

But overall I am firmly in the camp of hitting the ball and not touching it until it's holed.

Obviously I will concede that it can be lifted and cleaned on the green but in any other intervention should be a penalty stroke.

 

[clubchamp98]

No the pro should not play from a grandstand, he should be obliged to take a drop under penalty.

Fair enough ! But that’s not play it as it lies.
I am sure the pro would want a choice of playing it if they could.
What about the wrong green? Play it as it lies ?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I've played golf for 40 years and must have finished in fewer than 10 divots. Which maybe says a lot about my driving. There are few things more satisfying than getting to the bottom of the ball from one and it would just feel weird picking it up and moving it in the middle of summer

That’s why they annoy so much, because they are rare and they stand out in your memory.

I remember in the club champs, I finished in one which pointed off on a slicers angle,(not the best for a drawer of the ball), but it’s one of very few so really got under my skin for a while.

But I don’t really think the rule should be changed.

It’s also a shame that, for a game of honesty, one of the main reasons people say no is that people can’t be trusted to not take advantage of the rules.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just do what you like, tee it up on every shot. Infact just write '1', all the way down the score column. Nobody forces you to play to the rules.

Very good answer to my question.
It’s a discussion.

 

[Orikoru]

It’s also a shame that, for a game of honesty, one of the main reasons people say no is that people can’t be trusted to not take advantage of the rules.

True, that. It often seems to be the recourse from some people when we talk about rules that "people would abuse it" - but a lot of existing rules can already been abused, so trusting a golfer's integrity is no different whatever the rule says.

 

[clubchamp98]

That’s why they annoy so much, because they are rare and they stand out in your memory.

I remember in the club champs, I finished in one which pointed off on a slicers angle,(not the best for a drawer of the ball), but it’s one of very few so really got under my skin for a while.

But I don’t really think the rule should be changed.

It’s also a shame that, for a game of honesty, one of the main reasons people say no is that people can’t be trusted to not take advantage of the rules.

Tottaly agree the honesty bit.
But it’s “the play it as it lies “that is trotted out every time this is debated.
There are so many exceptions in the rules the ball is not played where it lies anymore.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

There are so many exceptions in the rules the ball is not played where it lies anymore.

But they are not exceptions, they are rules within the game. Drop off a green, drop out of a penalty area etc. These are all inherent parts of the game. When the ball is in play you play it as it lies or declare it unplayable and take a penalty. Simple.

 

[Imurg]

True, that. It often seems to be the recourse from some people when we talk about rules that "people would abuse it" - but a lot of existing rules can already been abused, so trusting a golfer's integrity is no different whatever the rule says.

The reason it would be abused isn't really down to a lack of integrity on the part of the player (although that will occur occasionally), it's more down to the comp,etc inability to define, to the absolute certainty, what a divot is.
That's the crux of the whole debate.
If you can 100% define what constitutes a divot, without there being any potential anomalies, then you have a case for arguing whether you should get relief or not.
And..
As has been said, if you are allowed a "perfect" lie on the fairway are you going to bury your ball in the cabbage when you, miraculously, get a decent lie after carving a drive?
After all, they are both examples of luck
Can you deny one while righting the other?

 

[Whereditgo]

When does a divot cease to be a divot?

Hit it, go find it, hit it again!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The reason it would be abused isn't really down to a lack of integrity on the part of the player (although that will occur occasionally), it's more down to the comp,etc inability to define, to the absolute certainty, what a divot is.
That's the crux of the whole debate.
If you can 100% define what constitutes a divot, without there being any potential anomalies, then you have a case for arguing whether you should get relief or not.
And..
As has been said, if you are allowed a "perfect" lie on the fairway are you going to bury your ball in the cabbage when you, miraculously, get a decent lie after carving a drive?
After all, they are both examples of luck
Can you deny one while righting the other?

Exactly. At what point does a divot become 'a slightly uneven bit of fairway'?