Should my friend have recieved a penalty?

[Adinik28]

Hi

I was playing a round of golf today with a friend. We were teeing off on the 18th, me 3 shots behind after a terrible 17th leaving him pull 4 shots back on me. Anyway he hits his t shot into a big ditch infront, we go to find it and find that its laying in a place where lots of water has collected and all iced over. The ball was clearly unplayable After all it was a natural object and not man made. so he got the ball out and dropped it behind without penalty! My question is; should he have received a stroke penalty or gone back to the tee and replayed his shot with a penalty?

I ended up pulling 2 strokes back as I pared the hole, meaning I lost by 1 shot, only the 2nd time out of about 10-15 i have played him. Therefore if he should have received a penalty I would not lose and not receive the banter I am receiving!

Any views would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers!

 

[brendy]

Was the ditch normally a hazard, ie red or yellow markers?

 

[Imurg]

If the ditch was not marked as a hazard (red or yellow stakes) then he may have a case under "casual water". Also if the area is ground under repair or comes under a local rule.

if there were stakes then he's wrong - he should have taken a penalty. But no stakes means its just part of the course and if its sitting in a puddle you can get relief from it.

Byt the way - I'm quite prepared to be shot down in flames by the rules boffins on this one but that is what I'd reckon to be right.

Welcome to the forum by the way!!

 

[brendy]

No you are correct, if its a hazard its a shot penalty, if its a normal playing area that has water coming up over the surface, its a free drop to nearest point etc UNLESS drainage ditches are a free drop under local rules.

 

[SammmeBee]

If it was casual water (which it sounds like it is) then he can have relief - one club length from the nearest point of relief not nearer the hole.....

It may be that he could of got out of the 'ditch' but he may not have done...it would depend where nearest point was....

If he did drop his ball in the wrong place (which he may well have done) the score he got stands but he also gets a 2 shot penalty so you win!!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The definition of casual water (page 32 of the rules of golf) is:

"casual water is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard and is visible before or after the player takes his stance. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments at the option of the player. Dew and frost are not casual water. A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water".

Therefore my interpretation would be that unless the ball was lying within the confines of a water hazard marked by red or yellow stakes or any area with clearly marked boundaries and declared by local ruling to be ground under repair then he would have a case for taking a drop.

However the player must drop within one club length from the nearest point of relief, not nearer the hole. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green (rule 25-1 b (i)) If your partner did not drop correctly within the confines of the ruling the penalty in stroke play would be 2 shots or loss of hole in matchplay.

I guess it comes down to how anal you want to be. The golfer in us all knows that we can't choose to waive any of the rules but the realist knows that trying to argue over a rule of golf and its sub-section is going to look petty at best and probably lead to even more grief and mickey teaking than the original one stroke defeat.

 

[brendy]

Homer is right, take it on the chin now and prepare to beat him next time or come out and call him a dirty cheat and never play him again! The competitor in me would secretly be plotting his downfall next time round.

 

[Adinik28]

Cheers for clearing that up guys!

The ditch was not marked by red/yellow markers and he dropped the ball about an arms length away from the hazard, and if anyones arm is longer than a club length then that's abnormal!

Oh well, losing to him 2-3 times out of 12-15 times isn't bad!

He says it doesn't happen very often so he is going to have to make the most out of it!

Cheers

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Good to see you taking it like a man. Just show no mercy next time out. Its good to have another new member on board. Can you tell us all a bit more about yourself, (where you play, what clubs etc - look at other peoplos signatures for the sort of thing)

 

[Leftie]

I trust that he bought the beers then.

BTW Welcome to THE Forum