Should any man be given more than one shot per hole?

[rosecott]

160 yard par 3 with little trouble that are low indexes are 4 point heven for the 28 handicappers.

Surely it's mostly swings and roundabouts - if he's getting 2 shots on an innocuous par 3, it's an extra shot he's not getting elswhere - maybe a toughish par 4.

CONGU do suggest that clubs could have one set of SIs for matchplay (with the even spread) and a different set for Stableford and Bogey.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The Problem with 2 shots per hole and the SI system the way the GUI want it is that the holes are not ranked in order, How many times have we played courses and went why is that index 3/4 there is no reason why except to spread out the indexes.
People having 2 shots per hole is fine as long as they have them on the actual 10 hardest holes, 160 yard par 3 with little trouble that are low indexes are 4 point heven for the 28 handicappers.
Our course updates the indexes each year according to there diffculty and it works fine guys get shots where they need them.
Mike

What you need is one SI for stableford, representing the actual hole difficulty and a separate SI for matchplay which spreads them around

The current SI system is designed for matchplay

Fragger

 

[Smiffy]

The last thing I want to do is play Smiffy off 10 when I know he's not that good, it would be a shallow victory

If I could replace three of my three putts for two putts every round I would be

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Ah but you don't have Sundance as a member of your club, he regularly rode out of town with scores like that before his h'cap caught up with him

Trouble is he had Bash as a partner in crime. A real Smith and Jones act robbing us honest handicapper blind. To be fair Bash and Sundance played in every competition and had put the effort in with lessons. I think if you get 24+ to start with and apply yourself and get cut as you improve and inevitably win things then fair play. I'm always happy to see a guy progress. We've another guy Kerching who use to regularly clean up in the Saturday roll up. He's found some form in monthly club comps and got himself down by about 5 shots in the space of 4 months. Nothing wrong in that

 

[evahakool]

The points I would like to make are.

All our strokeplay competitions at our club there are prizes for best scratch scores and prizes for best h/c scores,so there are plenty of scope for the players with the best gross scores to win prizes and rightly so.

I find it hard to understand why many lower h/c players dont like playing full h/c.in matchplay, when all the stats say they have a better chance of winning.

If I were to play a 11 h/c for example I would get 10 shots of him,so the other 8 holes we would be playing "level "golf for those holes,I would suggest a 11/hc against a 21 h/c the 11h/c should have a good chance of winning most of these holes.

So to me playing of full h/c makes it a fair game.

But I do understand the frustration when a mid to low h/c gets beat by a bandit.

 

[Captainron]

Everyone has to learn the game and I can understand that there are guys out there who won't get their handicap below 18. The thing that frustrates me about golfers with high handicaps is that it takes extra shots to finish holes and the pace of play is slow. This is a generalisation and I know it doesn't apply to all high handicappers but in my admittedly limnited experience they take longer and I don't like it! bat and ball are coming home with me!

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Everyone has to learn the game and I can understand that there are guys out there who won't get their handicap below 18. The thing that frustrates me about golfers with high handicaps is that it takes extra shots to finish holes and the pace of play is slow. This is a generalisation and I know it doesn't apply to all high handicappers but in my admittedly limnited experience they take longer and I don't like it! bat and ball are coming home with me!

Hogwash, Imurg 5 hcp and myself 23 hcp went round in 2 3/4 hours yesterday, he took a few more shots than normal, while I played to handicap- more or less- But even though I would normally take an extra 18 shots , it doesnt hold up play.

i'll wager that a low handicapper, with a long pre shot routine, will be a very similar round time compared to a high handicapper , who hits it as he sees it.


Now a High handicapper with a long pre shot routine.....Thats Different

Fragger

 

[Doc]

Everyone has to learn the game and I can understand that there are guys out there who won't get their handicap below 18. The thing that frustrates me about golfers with high handicaps is that it takes extra shots to finish holes and the pace of play is slow. This is a generalisation and I know it doesn't apply to all high handicappers but in my admittedly limnited experience they take longer and I don't like it! bat and ball are coming home with me!

:blah:

 

[One Planer]

Everyone has to learn the game and I can understand that there are guys out there who won't get their handicap below 18. The thing that frustrates me about golfers with high handicaps is that it takes extra shots to finish holes and the pace of play is slow. This is a generalisation and I know it doesn't apply to all high handicappers but in my admittedly limnited experience they take longer and I don't like it! bat and ball are coming home with me!

:rant:

Pish. I played a few weeks back with a group of friends who play off 13, 6 and 2 respectivley. I was the highest handicapper in our group, off 18. Did it take any longer................ No.

 

[tmorrissyswan]

No. If he can't get around in 18 shots over par he should have 2 shots on the hardest holes....

 

[Oddsocks]

sorry but the HC system is what makes this game great, what other sport can you take an 18year old healthy athletic young man, and a almost 80's ex war veteran, ex alcoholic with one leg, stick them on the same course/pitch/court and have them compete on a level playing field.

The 18 year old is off 5, the 80 year old is off 24, and both have won comps throughout the year.

 

[stevie_r]

Everyone has to learn the game and I can understand that there are guys out there who won't get their handicap below 18. The thing that frustrates me about golfers with high handicaps is that it takes extra shots to finish holes and the pace of play is slow. This is a generalisation and I know it doesn't apply to all high handicappers but in my admittedly limnited experience they take longer and I don't like it! bat and ball are coming home with me!

oh really?

 

[Captainron]

Hogwash, Imurg 5 hcp and myself 23 hcp went round in 2 3/4 hours yesterday, he took a few more shots than normal, while I played to handicap- more or less- But even though I would normally take an extra 18 shots , it doesnt hold up play.

i'll wager that a low handicapper, with a long pre shot routine, will be a very similar round time compared to a high handicapper , who hits it as he sees it.

Now a High handicapper with a long pre shot routine.....Thats Different

Fragger

Point taken. I did state that this was a generalisation and I do play with a 20 and 24 handicapper who are switched on and get on with the game at a fair lick. I think the 'once a year' golfer off a 28 and takes 120 shots is the one that gets me revved up. No offence intended on previous posting lads

 

[papyt]

The problem i cant get my head around is in winter comps we play 14 holes s.i No's 9,3,10,7 are the ones not in play if you take the 3/4 h/cap off it makes it harder for the higher handicap player ie 14 h/cap-3/4 =11 and 4 of the holes he gets a shot on are out of play against say a 3h/cap player only losses a stroke and that is in play so in effect the 14h/cap player is down to 7 how can this be correct.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The problem i cant get my head around is in winter comps we play 14 holes s.i No's 9,3,10,7 are the ones not in play if you take the 3/4 h/cap off it makes it harder for the higher handicap player ie 14 h/cap-3/4 =11 and 4 of the holes he gets a shot on are out of play against say a 3h/cap player only losses a stroke and that is in play so in effect the 14h/cap player is down to 7 how can this be correct.

What you're forgetting is the theory behind 3/4 h'cap when it was in place was that the lower h,caps were penalised less than higher h'caps. Plus handicaps actually got a shot more.

Just imagine for a second how a 3 h'capper feels in the summer when he shoots 1 under gross for a net 68 and comes 5th behind 4 20 h'cappers with net 65s?

IMVHO, low h'cappers get a worse deal out of the h'cap system most of the time so for a few months in the winter I'm not sure you have too much to moan about.

 

[BrummieFred]

The problem i cant get my head around is in winter comps we play 14 holes s.i No's 9,3,10,7 are the ones not in play if you take the 3/4 h/cap off it makes it harder for the higher handicap player ie 14 h/cap-3/4 =11 and 4 of the holes he gets a shot on are out of play against say a 3h/cap player only losses a stroke and that is in play so in effect the 14h/cap player is down to 7 how can this be correct.

INHO your case study disrupts the principle and in comps of only 14 holes should adapt the calculated allowance, say 14/18ths of 3/4 = 7/12ths. Thus 14 h/capper gets 8 shots on the eight lowest S.I.'s of those holes that are in play.

 

[Chesster]

I actually think the guy is a bit of a plum. I wouldn't want to play with him if I were 18+ (only a matter of time) and he refused to give me my full entitlement when clearly I'm not as good as he is. Perhaps he's another like Bob who has been beaten in a match of full difference and has "issues"

I was joking in the previous thread when I mentioned that I wouldn't give away more than 18 shots.

Thanks for your analysis though.

I have been beaten in full difference many times and its not an issue to me, nor do I have issues.

This is a discussion on the topic, its not personal.

Ash!!

Pay no attention Ash, for info I looked up "bit of a plum" in my Oxford English dictionary of Personal Abuse, it said "not quite a complete dweeb". Not so good so I looked up "complete dweeb" - it said "Next to Bill" Confused - then I notice "Page 44 Golf Monthly".

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Pay no attention Ash, for info I looked up "bit of a plum" in my Oxford English dictionary of Personal Abuse, it said "not quite a complete dweeb". Not so good so I looked up "complete dweeb" - it said "Next to Bill" Confused - then I notice "Page 44 Golf Monthly".

Next to Bill maybe, but I guess that still makes me GM 13 handicap and above Centenary champion and 2nd overall out of 300+ entries. You came where????

 

[papyt]

INHO your case study disrupts the principle and in comps of only 14 holes should adapt the calculated allowance, say 14/18ths of 3/4 = 7/12ths. Thus 14 h/capper gets 8 shots on the eight lowest S.I.'s of those holes that are in play.

Are you correct in you calculation because i mentioned this about 2 hours ago to the comps sec. at the club and he nearly had a heart attack mumbled about new cards for comps ,why are you moaning etc etc it was hard to hear thru his clenched teeth is this a standard rule or can it be at the digestion of the club??.

 

[papyt]

sorry discretion i think i spoiled his digestion