Shot 70 but DQ'ed and given a score of 106

Thread starter #1

JW Branny

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
7
The situation.

A few days prior to playing in the most recent club competition I received an email from the handicap committee that instructed players to submit their scores online to the howdidido system (a usual method at my club during covid). However, when registering to play on the day I was told by the pro shop to place my card in the designated scorecard box instead (has happened in the past with specific events).

The issue.

I shot a level par round of 70, signed for the correct score and placed the score card in the correct box. The next day I see that I was DQ'ed and the score posted to my recent scores was 106 (double bogey on every hole).

When I enquired about this I was told that as my card was not entered online, I was given an NR on every hole and then DQ'ed.

I have never had any issues like this before so I have no idea if this within the rules? Do the handicap committe have the power to do this?
 

IainP

Tour Rookie
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
3,506
Location
Oxfordshire
I think my initial takeaway is, a person or group that administers the competitions give one set of instructions. Another person with no involvement in administering the competitions gives conflicting instructions - who are you going to follow?
Whilst this undoubtedly feels unfair to you, have others been DQ in recent months for not entering on-line? If so it may be unfair to them to treat you differently.

Whilst on the information provided it does feel a tad "jobsworthy", & others will have more knowledge I suspect they set out the competition rules how they see fit within overall guidance. So "it's their ball" so to speak.
Have you spoken to them?
 
Thread starter #3

JW Branny

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
7
I think my initial takeaway is, a person or group that administers the competitions give one set of instructions. Another person with no involvement in administering the competitions gives conflicting instructions - who are you going to follow?
Whilst this undoubtedly feels unfair to you, have others been DQ in recent months for not entering on-line? If so it may be unfair to them to treat you differently.

Whilst on the information provided it does feel a tad "jobsworthy", & others will have more knowledge I suspect they set out the competition rules how they see fit within overall guidance. So "it's their ball" so to speak.
Have you spoken to them?
Your takeaway is mostly correct, but the conflicting information was given by the pro shop immediately before playing. In the past the pro shop has been used to inform players of any last minute changes to the competitions. So its more like 2 official departments giving conflicting instructions.

To my knowledge this has not happened to anyone before, that being said in this competition their were some 30+ others who were also DQ'ed, for what I assume is the same reason as myself.

I have spoken to the handicap comittee and I was simply told that as my score was not entered online I was given an NR on every hole and DQ'ed. The NR's that are taken as double bogeys on the WHS are what bother me the most, they're the reason I have a 106 on my recent scores and that is the part I didn't think would be within the rules seeing as how i didn't actually shoot that score. To be clear my handicap is 0, so 106 is a bit outside of my normal round.
 

wjemather

Active member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
503
Location
Bristol
The situation.

A few days prior to playing in the most recent club competition I received an email from the handicap committee that instructed players to submit their scores online to the howdidido system (a usual method at my club during covid). However, when registering to play on the day I was told by the pro shop to place my card in the designated scorecard box instead (has happened in the past with specific events).

The issue.

I shot a level par round of 70, signed for the correct score and placed the score card in the correct box. The next day I see that I was DQ'ed and the score posted to my recent scores was 106 (double bogey on every hole).

When I enquired about this I was told that as my card was not entered online, I was given an NR on every hole and then DQ'ed.

I have never had any issues like this before so I have no idea if this within the rules? Do the handicap committe have the power to do this?
I would suggest checking your club's published terms of competition. If your committee have deemed howdidido to be an electronic scorecard, then you can be DQd. However...

I would say HDID does not currently have the necessary certification functionality to meet the rules requirements of an electronic scorecard, and therefore can only be used as computerised score entry (i.e. it's no different from a PSI touchscreen). As such, you should not have been DQd.

There is a difference between requiring players to enter a score for a round into a computer (such as for handicapping purposes) and being required to enter hole scores using an electronic form of scorecard approved by the Committee (such as a mobile scoring application).​
The Committee may require players to use a scorecard other than a paper scorecard (such as an electronic form of scorecard), but the Committee has no authority to impose a penalty under Rule 3.3b(2) for failing to enter scores elsewhere.​
However, to help in administrative matters (such as the efficient production and communication of competition results), a Committee may apply a penalty under a Code of Conduct (Rule 1.2b) or provide disciplinary sanctions (such as revoking entry into the next competition) for failing to enter scores elsewhere.​
 
Last edited:

wjemather

Active member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
503
Location
Bristol
Your takeaway is mostly correct, but the conflicting information was given by the pro shop immediately before playing. In the past the pro shop has been used to inform players of any last minute changes to the competitions. So its more like 2 official departments giving conflicting instructions.

To my knowledge this has not happened to anyone before, that being said in this competition their were some 30+ others who were also DQ'ed, for what I assume is the same reason as myself.

I have spoken to the handicap comittee and I was simply told that as my score was not entered online I was given an NR on every hole and DQ'ed. The NR's that are taken as double bogeys on the WHS are what bother me the most, they're the reason I have a 106 on my recent scores and that is the part I didn't think would be within the rules seeing as how i didn't actually shoot that score. To be clear my handicap is 0, so 106 is a bit outside of my normal round.
The handicap committee should also not be posting 18 "0"s or "NR"s to your record since this is not an acceptable score. Since you have submitted your scorecard, they must enter your actual scores onto WHS.

If you hadn't submitted your score, they should be seeking to establish your score for entry onto WHS, and giving consideration to applying a penalty score if non-submission became a regular occurrence.
 
Thread starter #6

JW Branny

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
7
The handicap committee should also not be posting 18 "0"s or "NR"s to your record since this is not an acceptable score. Since you have submitted your scorecard, they must enter your actual scores onto WHS.

If you hadn't submitted your score, they should be seeking to establish your score for entry onto WHS, and giving consideration to applying a penalty score if non-submission became a regular occurrence.
I suspected that the NR's were the incorrect thing to do. However, I did not know about rule 3.3b(2) or the committe procedure 5A(5). This is exactly the info I needed.

Thank you
 

bobmac

Major Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,939
Location
Lincolnshire
You played well, you filled out your card correctly and it was signed by player and marker and handed in as instructed by the pro shop.
You did nothing wrong in my opinion.

If paper scorecards are good enough for the best players in the world, they should be good enough for any club comp.
It looks like a club committee flexing their self importance....just because they can.
 

bobmac

Major Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,939
Location
Lincolnshire

Liverpoolphil

Grand Slam Winner
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
36,896
Location
Leighton Buzzard

bobmac

Major Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,939
Location
Lincolnshire
You need rules within the game and we are all expected to follow those rules of golf
I agree of course.
But when you play by the rules of golf, fill out your scorecard as per the rules of golf and get dq'd by some jobsworth in a committee room who probably can't break 90, it's no fun.
Just my humble opinion
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
8,886
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
The situation.

A few days prior to playing in the most recent club competition I received an email from the handicap committee that instructed players to submit their scores online to the howdidido system (a usual method at my club during covid). However, when registering to play on the day I was told by the pro shop to place my card in the designated scorecard box instead (has happened in the past with specific events).

The issue.

I shot a level par round of 70, signed for the correct score and placed the score card in the correct box. The next day I see that I was DQ'ed and the score posted to my recent scores was 106 (double bogey on every hole).

When I enquired about this I was told that as my card was not entered online, I was given an NR on every hole and then DQ'ed.

I have never had any issues like this before so I have no idea if this within the rules? Do the handicap committe have the power to do this?
How do the committee deal with members who do not have the ability or facilities to use electronic score entry. This seems to be something you should appeal against and insist on a meeting between yourself, the pro and the jobsworth who is implementing this.
 

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
10,211
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
Two separate issues here, isn't it? One is a valid competition entry, and I think the OP has been screwed on that, but the second is the valid WHS score, and I think that is outrageous to give a score of 106, and I think he should push back hard.
 
Thread starter #14

JW Branny

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
7
How do the committee deal with members who do not have the ability or facilities to use electronic score entry. This seems to be something you should appeal against and insist on a meeting between yourself, the pro and the jobsworth who is implementing this.
Yeah I will defintley be appealing, especially now that wjemather pointed me in the direction of the applicable rules
 

mikejohnchapman

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
1,544
Location
Dorset
I really struggle with this and feel you have been very hard done by. We are all coming out of a difficult period and trying to be fair but flexible with people who for legitimate reasons may feel uncomfortable with all the changes post Covid.

As others have said, if you just didn't follow the rules as set you should get DQ'd from the comp. However, you sought guidance from a reputable source on the day and followed it. Surely common sense should prevail here with subsequent clarification for future competitions?

As far as the score is concerned I think they are just plain wrong. If they will not accept your card as a legitimate score (bizarre) then the only option is a penalty score which they have to tell you about before applying with a reason.
 

Hobbit

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
15,782
Location
Espana
Bit out of the loop on whs. However, is the pro a designated starter, typically managing issuing cards and ensuring players are aware of any changes to the start sheet etc? If the pro is acting for the comps committee, and the players acts on instructions given, why is the player at fault?
 

NearHull

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
516
I think the crux of the issue is whether you registered for the round and not really how you returned the score. Our Terms of Competition state that a player must register for the round , for us , on ClubV1. Registering for the round on HowDidIDo is the sane thing. We insist on a scorecard for a competition score return because, as previously mentioned, the HowDidIDo App does not have a very good verification process.
 
Thread starter #18

JW Branny

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
7
I think the crux of the issue is whether you registered for the round and not really how you returned the score. Our Terms of Competition state that a player must register for the round , for us , on ClubV1. Registering for the round on HowDidIDo is the sane thing. We insist on a scorecard for a competition score return because, as previously mentioned, the HowDidIDo App does not have a very good verification process.
I did register in the usual way, which for a comeptition round at my club involves getting your card from the pro shop, at which point the pro or his assistant ticks your name on a printed start sheet to show that you have entered. You can't actually play during competition times unless your name has been ticked on that sheet.
 

NearHull

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
516
I did register in the usual way, which for a comeptition round at my club involves getting your card from the pro shop, at which point the pro or his assistant ticks your name on a printed start sheet to show that you have entered. You can't actually play during competition times unless your name has been ticked on that sheet.
Have you accessed your Terms of Competition?
 
Thread starter #20

JW Branny

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
7
Have you accessed your Terms of Competition?
I haven't, and I've never really heard anyone at the club speak about the terms of competition.

It doesn't appear that the terms for my club are available online. So I will have to email them and see if I can get a copy.

Thanks for suggesting this.
 
Top