Searching for the Provisional first

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If a hit my ball into somewhere grim and so play a provisional is there anything that requires me to look for my original ball first. Can I look for my Provisional first and then go and look for my Original?

Context - a mate hit his tee shot poorly and only maybe 100yds into deep clart. He hit a provisional and he hit it well - let's say 250yds but towards an area of light rough. He decided to ignore his original and walked past where it might be without looking or anyone else looking for it, and went to find his provisional with the intent of playing that ball. But he couldn't find the Provisional. And so he headed back towards the tee to look for his original - which he did find though it was unplayable and took so a drop and played out the hole.

Any issues with any of that?

 

[Steven Rules]

If a hit my ball into somewhere grim and so play a provisional is there anything that requires me to look for my original ball first. Can I look for my Provisional first and then go and look for my Original?

Context - a mate hit his tee shot poorly and only maybe 100yds into deep clart. He hit a provisional and he hit it well - let's say 250yds but towards an area of light rough. He decided to ignore his original and walked past where it might be without looking or anyone else looking for it, and went to find his provisional with the intent of playing that ball. But he couldn't find the Provisional. And so he headed back towards the tee to look for his original - which he did find though it was unplayable and took so a drop and played out the hole.

Any issues with any of that?

I can't see any problem with that from a ball search perspective. Given that the search areas were so far apart and involved walking back about 150 yards to the original ball, tbough, maybe it could be argued that there was some breach of the unreasonable delay/prompt pace of play provisions (Rule 5.6) but that's pretty tenuous and unlikely to be applied.

 

[salfordlad]

I can't see any problem with that from a ball search perspective. Given that the search areas were so far apart and involved walking back about 150 yards to the original ball, tbough, maybe it could be argued that there was some breach of the unreasonable delay/prompt pace of play provisions (Rule 5.6) but that's pretty tenuous and unlikely to be applied.

Agree. There is no rule that requires you to search for your original or search for your original first.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thanks guys. In the context I set out that's clear and as I thought.

I guess an issue might arise if provisional and original are likely to be 'very' close together and so searching for Provisional could be deemed searching also for Original and so though I might say I am looking for my provisional, if I don't find it within 3mins (or indeed if I do) and then find my original 2mins later in the same area there might be a bit of a quibble over it having taken 5mins to find my original...?

 

[doublebogey7]

Thanks guys. In the context I set out that's clear and as I thought.

I guess an issue might arise if provisional and original are likely to be 'very' close together and so searching for Provisional could be deemed searching also for Original and so though I might say I am looking for my provisional, if I don't find it within 3mins (or indeed if I do) and then find my original 2mins later in the same area there might be a bit of a quibble over it having taken 5mins to find my original...?

The rules are clear on this point, you get a total of three minutes to look for all balls thought to be in the same general area.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The rules are clear on this point, you get a total of three minutes to look for all balls thought to be in the same general area.

Ok. Good to know though I am thinking not that common a scenario.

 

[Steven Rules]

The rules are clear on this point, you get a total of three minutes to look for all balls thought to be in the same general area.

In full, Interpretation Lost/4 - Search Time When Searching for Two Balls

When a player has played two balls (such as the ball in play and a provisional ball) and is searching for both, whether the player is allowed two separate three-minute search times depends how close the balls are to each other.

If the balls are in the same area where they can be searched for at the same time, the player is allowed only three minutes to search for both balls. However, if the balls are in different areas (such as opposite sides of the fairway) the player is allowed a three-minute search time for each ball.

 

[IslaG]

Ok. Good to know though I am thinking not that common a scenario.

I seem to do this quite frequently Hit a shot that is ?? OB or lost in trees then repeat exactly the same shot with my provisional ball?

 

[Colin L]

I seem to do this quite frequently Hit a shot that is ?? OB or lost in trees then repeat exactly the same shot with my provisional ball?

That's a shame. You're denying yourself the traditional cry of "Why didn't I do that the first time?" as you watch your provisional sailing splendidly down the middle.

 

[rulefan]

That's a shame. You're denying yourself the traditional cry of "Why didn't I do that the first time?" as you watch your provisional sailing splendidly down the middle.

Yes. I always advise players to hit their provisional first.

 

[DickInShorts]

For your next birthday - or Christmas present make sure you add ‘a dozen Provisional (ProV1sional?) balls’ to your list ?

 

[srixon 1]

If a hit my ball into somewhere grim and so play a provisional is there anything that requires me to look for my original ball first. Can I look for my Provisional first and then go and look for my Original?

Context - a mate hit his tee shot poorly and only maybe 100yds into deep clart. He hit a provisional and he hit it well - let's say 250yds but towards an area of light rough. He decided to ignore his original and walked past where it might be without looking or anyone else looking for it, and went to find his provisional with the intent of playing that ball. But he couldn't find the Provisional. And so he headed back towards the tee to look for his original - which he did find though it was unplayable and took so a drop and played out the hole.

Any issues with any of that?

Maybe this is an old rule, or I just made it up, but I thought that if you went a substantial distance past where your first ball was likely to be then it is considered abandoned. In this scenario it wouldn't affect me because I would always look for my first ball before looking for the provisional.

 

[Steven Rules]

Maybe this is an old rule, or I just made it up, but I thought that if you went a substantial distance past where your first ball was likely to be then it is considered abandoned. In this scenario it wouldn't affect me because I would always look for my first ball before looking for the provisional.

I think you made it up. (No offence intended.)

Under the pre-2019 rules one of the conditions for a ball to be deemed lost was if the player made a stroke at a provisional ball from a place that the original ball is likely to be or nearer to the hole than that place. This is quite different from merely walking past the place where the original ball is likely to be.

Under the current rules the ONLY condition for a ball to be lost is if it is not found within three minutes after the player (or caddie etc) begins to search for it.

Of course, under the current rules a number of other siuations have the same net effect as if the original ball was lost - such as taking stroke and distance relief or playing a provisional ball from nearer the hole than where the original ball is estimated to be - but, under the current rules, while these scenarios require the original ball to be abandoned they don't render the original ball lost.

 

[salfordlad]

Maybe this is an old rule, or I just made it up, but I thought that if you went a substantial distance past where your first ball was likely to be then it is considered abandoned. In this scenario it wouldn't affect me because I would always look for my first ball before looking for the provisional.

Suffice to say it appears to be a mangled misunderstanding of the pre 2019 rules. Key point, it was wrong then, it is even more wrong now. Please read Rule 18.3 and intertpretations in their entirety - it can only help you get around the course without unnecessary rules breaches.

 

[Steven Rules]

Maybe this is an old rule, or I just made it up, but I thought that if you went a substantial distance ....

Alternatively maybe you were thinking of the old rule that prevented a player from playing a provisional ball if he/she had gone forward to search for the original ball. Going 50 yards forward was the maximum guideline distance.

This limitation no longer exists. Under the new rules a provisional ball may be played any time before the three minute search period has ended.

 

[srixon 1]

Alternatively maybe you were thinking of the old rule that prevented a player from playing a provisional ball if he/she had gone forward to search for the original ball. Going 50 yards forward was the maximum guideline distance.

This limitation no longer exists. Under the new rules a provisional ball may be played any time before the three minute search period has ended.

Yes, I think that is what I was thinking of.

 

[Swango1980]

The ball is lost if it is not found within 3 minutes (unless you subsequently find it in the hole). Straightforward.

However, if you can find the caveat, or interpretation that says the ball becomes "unlost" if it is then found a short distance off the fairway, and what that short distance is defined as (in metres or number of club lengths) then by all means let me know. However, don't spend too much time looking for any such caveat, probably a waste of your time.

 

[John Evans 9]

I hit my first shot too far into the rough across the corner of a dog-leg. My provisional is hit on exactly the same line but short of the corner , about 100 yards shorter than the original drive. The provisional is closer to the hole than the original is likely to be. To save time I hit the provisional to the green then walk 100 yards to find my original ball, which I then play. To save time this is the obvious way to play the situation but does my provisional become the ball in play as soon as i’ve hit it ?

 

[salfordlad]

I hit my first shot too far into the rough across the corner of a dog-leg. My provisional is hit on exactly the same line but short of the corner , about 100 yards shorter than the original drive. The provisional is closer to the hole than the original is likely to be. To save time I hit the provisional to the green then walk 100 yards to find my original ball, which I then play. To save time this is the obvious way to play the situation but does my provisional become the ball in play as soon as i’ve hit it ?

Yes, PB is now ball in play. And the original ball is now a wrong ball. 18.3c(2), second bullet point.

 

[Swango1980]

I hit my first shot too far into the rough across the corner of a dog-leg. My provisional is hit on exactly the same line but short of the corner , about 100 yards shorter than the original drive. The provisional is closer to the hole than the original is likely to be. To save time I hit the provisional to the green then walk 100 yards to find my original ball, which I then play. To save time this is the obvious way to play the situation but does my provisional become the ball in play as soon as i’ve hit it ?

I'm confused. Maybe I'm not understanding the geography of the hole. You said your provisional was SHORTER than your original ball. Therefore, I would have presumed that your provisional was FURHER away from the hole than you original was likely to be? But, you then go on to say the provisional was CLOSER to the hole?

As salfordlad said, if provisional was closer to the hole, that becomes the ball in play. However, if your post was not worded correctly, and your provisional was further from the hole than the original likely to be, the original would be the ball in play once you found it.