Scotland Debate

[Deleted member 18588]

So the pensioners won it for NO. One man,one vote, but those leaving this mortal coil sooner than most decide the future for the rest of us.

Perhaps that was because the pensioners, of whom you are rather dismissive, had the most to lose and insufficient time to see whether or not independence really would deliver the utopia promised by prominent members of the Yes campaign.

Are you suggesting that the normal democratic procedures should have been suspended and more weight given to the votes of the youngest. Some, not all, of those 16 year olds may have had little idea of the practical realities yet, quite rightly, their vote counted the same as someone of more mature years.

That is democracy. It ain't perfect but so far we have not found anything better.

 

[FairwayDodger]

So the pensioners won it for NO. One man,one vote, but those leaving this mortal coil sooner than most decide the future for the rest of us.

That's your worst post on the thread. Even if the statement is true (and I don't see how it could be verified) the implication that older people's opinions are less valid is pretty poor.

I know you're disappointed but try and retain some perspective.

BTW, I'm a long way off drawing a pension.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I thought that might not go down too well.And it's probably rude of me to say, but I'm pretty depressed by that.The future of this country, pretty much across the demographic scale wanted YES, only to be held back by those with less future.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I thought that might not go down too well.And it's probably rude of me to say, but I'm pretty depressed by that.The future of this country, pretty much across the demographic scale wanted YES, only to be held back by those with less future.

You got some sort of poll providing these figures or are you just sulking?

And "held back" is your own conceit. How about "prevented from making a terrible mistake"?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

You got some sort of poll providing these figures or are you just sulking?

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/512895230132371456

 

[JustOne]

I thought that might not go down too well.And it's probably rude of me to say, but I'm pretty depressed by that.The future of this country, pretty much across the demographic scale wanted YES, only to be held back by those with less future.

Seeing as I don't know..... you have 2 million pensioners out of 3.6 million voters?

 

[phil78]

Must be weird waking up to slag off +55% of your own kin and realise that you live in a Country that DOESN'T WANT to go it alone.

I don't think weird is really the word, gut wrenchlingly disappointing is closer.

 

[JCW]

What happened to "respect your elders"?

Maybe they have been around for longer, seen a lot more than most, and are in a better place to judge. God forbid, what if they made their decision based on the long term future of their relatives rather than their own short term aims?!

Wisdom comes with age , not with everyone but generally it does with most , what was also good was the turn out which shows a lot more cared about the future , myself , i always vote out of respect to those that laid down their lives in the past so we have the right today

 

[Stuey01]

I thought that might not go down too well.And it's probably rude of me to say, but I'm pretty depressed by that.The future of this country, pretty much across the demographic scale wanted YES, only to be held back by those with less future.

Adi2Dassler's Scotland of the future...

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/512895230132371456

2,000 people, never the best sample....

 

[ger147]

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/512895230132371456

18-24's were also No?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/512895230132371456

Perhaps the votes of women should also be devalued and how to explain the difference between the 16-17 year olds and their older brothers & sisters aged 18-24.

"There's lies, damned lies and ultimately there's statistics!"

 

[timlongs]

2,000 people, never the best sample....

Thats a very good sample. For the whole of the UK you only need to sample around 1500 people for it to represent the whole population.

http://www.select-statistics.co.uk/sample-size-calculator-mean

[h=4]Sample size[/h]This is the minimum sample size you need to estimate the true population mean with the required margin of error and confidence level. Note that if some people choose not to respond they cannot be included in your sample and so if non-response is a possibility your sample size will have to be increased accordingly. In general, the higher the response rate the better the estimate, as non-response will often lead to biases in your estimate.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Thats a very good sample. For the whole of the UK you only need to sample around 1500 people for it to represent the whole population.

http://www.select-statistics.co.uk/sample-size-calculator-mean

Sample size

This is the minimum sample size you need to estimate the true population mean with the required margin of error and confidence level. Note that if some people choose not to respond they cannot be included in your sample and so if non-response is a possibility your sample size will have to be increased accordingly. In general, the higher the response rate the better the estimate, as non-response will often lead to biases in your estimate.

Interesting! That actually really surprises me!

 

[timlongs]

Interesting! That actually really surprises me!

Yeah surprises a lot. My politics degree has actually came in useful for once!

 

[Hobbit]

So the pensioners won it for NO. One man,one vote, but those leaving this mortal coil sooner than most decide the future for the rest of us.

Oh Adi, after the good grace you've debated your case, sometimes against some pretty heated responses...

I seem to remember a poll showing lots of youngsters also felt it was Better Together. I'd be inclined to say that the majority of Yes voters were those that suffered most during the late 70's, early 80's...

As for Gordon Brown's performance... that's the man that should be your next First Minister! I don't like his politics, but what a performance. And he certainly showed up Milliband as being wet, weak and nondescript.

 

[Hobbit]

Thats a very good sample. For the whole of the UK you only need to sample around 1500 people for it to represent the whole population.

http://www.select-statistics.co.uk/sample-size-calculator-mean

[h=4]Sample size[/h]This is the minimum sample size you need to estimate the true population mean with the required margin of error and confidence level. Note that if some people choose not to respond they cannot be included in your sample and so if non-response is a possibility your sample size will have to be increased accordingly. In general, the higher the response rate the better the estimate, as non-response will often lead to biases in your estimate.

I disagree. For example, if you took that sample from an area that was very pro-Yes, i.e. the centre of Glasgow, you'd get a very different result from, say, Edinburgh.

 

[timlongs]

For those complaining about old/young voters etc etc. If anyone had bothered to pay for an exit poll we might actually have had an understanding about how this vote occured. Read this article for more info:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/scottish-vote-no-exit-poll-democratic-deficit

 

[timlongs]

I disagree. For example, if you took that sample from an area that was very pro-Yes, i.e. the centre of Glasgow, you'd get a very different result from, say, Edinburgh.

True but thats why we do random sampling from areas all over the country. Lord Ashcroft is one of the gods of polling. He is very reliable.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Gordon Brown certainly saved the UK.
His 'It is not their flag' speech was quality and turned a lot of heads.

All the experts thought the 16-18 year old's were locked in YES, how wrong were they.