Ruling please.

[Sid Rixon IV]

My drive fades and I know it will be amongst trees between two fairways (and there's a ditch and it's now getting very leafy)
I'm hopeful I'll find it but I play a provisional anyway and it repeats the flight of the first.
When we reach the search area I find the provisional and then look for the first with no success.
Deciding to proceed with the provisional I select a club from my bag a few yards away, turn back, see the ball and strike it.
After I go to move on I notice a ball a few feet to the left of where I just struck my ball. I check and see that it's the provisional I first located and that I'd just "found" and struck my original.
Now, we can't be certain how long we searched as we'd just searched for an FP's ball as well.
So
1. What's the rule if I played my original within five minutes of searching?
2. I assume that if five minutes had elapsed I'm penalised for playing the wrong ball?
(This had no impact on the result of the match)

 

[atticusfinch]

My drive fades and I know it will be amongst trees between two fairways (and there's a ditch and it's now getting very leafy)
I'm hopeful I'll find it but I play a provisional anyway and it repeats the flight of the first.
When we reach the search area I find the provisional and then look for the first with no success.
Deciding to proceed with the provisional I select a club from my bag a few yards away, turn back, see the ball and strike it.
After I go to move on I notice a ball a few feet to the left of where I just struck my ball. I check and see that it's the provisional I first located and that I'd just "found" and struck my original.
Now, we can't be certain how long we searched as we'd just searched for an FP's ball as well.
So
1. What's the rule if I played my original within five minutes of searchingvisioal It is the ball in play unless you played the provisional from a spot closer to the hole than the orig was likely to be. SEE RULE 27-2.
2. I assume that if five minutes had elapsed I'm penalised for playing the wrong ball?
(This had no impact on the result of the match)

.......

 

[ManinBlack]

Now, we can't be certain how long we searched as we'd just searched for an FP's ball as well.

You must​ ​be absolutely certain about how long you searched. The rule says "5 minutes", not "about 5 minutes". The only way is to use a stopwatch, I use the one on my phone. I only do this in competition, mind you. In friendly games we rarely look for the full 5 minutes anyway. As far as searching for a FC's ball as well, if you were searching the same area you only get 5 minutes in total. If you can persuade yourselves they are in different areas (not usually difficult!) then you get 5 minutes each. It's the same rule if you were hunting for the original & provisional in the same area.

 

[Colin L]

Sid,
In non-rules terms, if it was within 5 minutes you got a lucky! If over 5 minutes (question 2), not so good - you played,as you thought, a wrong ball.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Thanks everyone.
One of the guys said that as long as the provisional was ahead of the original, and it was, it was fine but I thought it was down to the search time.
Now I know :thup:

 

[6inchcup]

You must​ ​be absolutely certain about how long you searched. The rule says "5 minutes", not "about 5 minutes". The only way is to use a stopwatch, I use the one on my phone. I only do this in competition, mind you. In friendly games we rarely look for the full 5 minutes anyway. As far as searching for a FC's ball as well, if you were searching the same area you only get 5 minutes in total. If you can persuade yourselves they are in different areas (not usually difficult!) then you get 5 minutes each. It's the same rule if you were hunting for the original & provisional in the same area.

i did this in a county comp some years back (pre mobile phones used the one on my watch) told the guy i was putting him on the clock as we looked for his ball,he never spoke to me for the remaining holes,

 

[Colin L]

Thanks everyone.
One of the guys said that as long as the provisional was ahead of the original, and it was, it was fine but I thought it was down to the search time.
Now I know :thup:

Just to be clear, the position of the provisional ball was completely irrelevant. He was getting mixed up with playing a provisional ball first when the likely position of the original does matter.

 

[chrisd]

i did this in a county comp some years back (pre mobile phones used the one on my watch) told the guy i was putting him on the clock as we looked for his ball,he never spoke to me for the remaining holes,

,
I guess, having read that, now if it happened I my group in Sundays comp, I wouldn't tell my FC I was timing and just say that his 5 mins was up if he hadn't found his ball. If he asked why I was timing I would just say that I always do for a lost ball search in comps

 

[delc]

My drive fades and I know it will be amongst trees between two fairways (and there's a ditch and it's now getting very leafy)
I'm hopeful I'll find it but I play a provisional anyway and it repeats the flight of the first.
When we reach the search area I find the provisional and then look for the first with no success.
Deciding to proceed with the provisional I select a club from my bag a few yards away, turn back, see the ball and strike it.
After I go to move on I notice a ball a few feet to the left of where I just struck my ball. I check and see that it's the provisional I first located and that I'd just "found" and struck my original.
Now, we can't be certain how long we searched as we'd just searched for an FP's ball as well.
So
1. What's the rule if I played my original within five minutes of searching?
2. I assume that if five minutes had elapsed I'm penalised for playing the wrong ball?
(This had no impact on the result of the match)

If I understood your question, you hit your original ball thinking it was your provisional ball. No problem with that, as long as you had not played a stroke at your provisional ball and it was found within 5 minutes of starting the search. If more than 5 minutes then the original ball was 'lost' and no longer in play, and to continue with it would make it a wrong ball.

P.S. Just to clarify something relating to a provisional ball. You can play a provisional until you reach the probable area where the original ball is likely to be, but once nearer to the hole, making a stroke at the provisional ball makes it the ball in play.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

If I understood your question, you hit your original ball thinking it was your provisional ball. No problem with that, as long as you had not played a stroke at your provisional ball and it was found within 5 minutes of starting the search. If more than 5 minutes then the original ball was 'lost' and no longer in play, and to continue with it would make it a wrong ball.

Thank heavens you cleared that up Del!

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

An afterthought:
After looking for "a while" I just said "Right chaps, let's move on" - then struck my original ball unwittingly.
If I'd clearly said "Let's move on, I'm playing the provisional" would it make any difference assuming it was within the five minutes?
I'm guessing not?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

An afterthought:
After looking for "a while" I just said "Right chaps, let's move on" - then struck my original ball unwittingly.
If I'd clearly said "Let's move on, I'm playing the provisional" would it make any difference assuming it was within the five minutes?
I'm guessing not?

Nothing you "say" has any affect. It's only your actions (or the time) that can affect it. Or effect it. I never know which.

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Thanks to everyone who took time to reply.
Much appreciated :thup:

 

[Colin L]

If I understood your question, you hit your original ball thinking it was your provisional ball. No problem with that, as long as you had not played a stroke at your provisional ball and it was found within 5 minutes of starting the search. If more than 5 minutes then the original ball was 'lost' and no longer in play, and to continue with it would make it a wrong ball.

P.S. Just to clarify something relating to a provisional ball. You can play a provisional until you reach the probable area where the original ball is likely to be, but once nearer to the hole, making a stroke at the provisional ball makes it the ball in play.

Del, your remarkable ability to come in with a restatement of what has been well answered way back in threads reminds me of L/Cpl Jones in Dad's Army: everyone else comes to attention and then you hear his boot coming down after them. :thup:

 

[Foxholer]

Del, your remarkable ability to come in with a restatement of what has been well answered way back in threads reminds me of L/Cpl Jones in Dad's Army: everyone else comes to attention and then you hear his boot coming down after them. :thup:

Colin. Have you ever considered a 2nd career in the diplomatic service? :rofl:

I'll blame you for the image I have of him playing golf too - actually, No! I had that image (and quite a lot of Captain Mainwaring) in mind already!

 

[North Mimms]

,
I guess, having read that, now if it happened I my group in Sundays comp, I wouldn't tell my FC I was timing and just say that his 5 mins was up if he hadn't found his ball. If he asked why I was timing I would just say that I always do for a lost ball search in comps

It's rare for people to take the full 5 minutes, but when they want to, knowing the start time is useful.
In comps, i rarely time people as most will give up before 5 minutes if they are looking in heavy rough , as if it takes that long to find it, it's usually horrid.
In matches, i do glance at my watch as we start looking regardless if it's my ball or oppo's . I find in matchplay, people oten want to take their full 5 mins

 

[North Mimms]

Del, your remarkable ability to come in with a restatement of what has been well answered way back in threads reminds me of L/Cpl Jones in Dad's Army: everyone else comes to attention and then you hear his boot coming down after them. :thup:

At least he doesn't run round the forum yelling "Don't Panic Don't panic!!"

 

[backwoodsman]

Already been answered that in the circumstances described the provision ball was totally irrelevant. Could be worth noting that it was also irrelevant that one believed one was playing the provisional at the time you were hitting the ball. Whether you know, or don't know, that the ball at which you're making a stroke is the "right ball" or a wrong ball doesn't change the ball's actual status.

Interesting point to ask about though, is that if the OP hadn't happened across the provisional when he started to move on at what point would he have recognised he was still playing the original? Or would he have been none the wiser, and just marked up the card as if playing three off the tee?

 

[Sid Rixon IV]

Interesting point to ask about though, is that if the OP hadn't happened across the provisional when he started to move on at what point would he have recognised he was still playing the original? Or would he have been none the wiser, and just marked up the card as if playing three off the tee?

Fair point.
As it happens they were two different brands with different markings because.....
This was me some time back:
"What was your first ball?"
"Titelist with a black arrow marked on both sides"
"What was your provisional?"
"Er, a Titleist with a black arrow on both sides"
"What are the other two on your cart?"
"Errr... a Titelist with a black arrow on both sides"
Apart from difficulty in ID'ing the correct ball I hadn't realised the potential for cheating.

 

[backwoodsman]

Fair point.
As it happens they were two different brands with different markings because.....
This was me some time back:
"What was your first ball?"
"Titelist with a black arrow marked on both sides"
"What was your provisional?"
"Er, a Titleist with a black arrow on both sides"
"What are the other two on your cart?"
"Errr... a Titelist with a black arrow on both sides"
Apart from difficulty in ID'ing the correct ball I hadn't realised the potential for cheating.

I sort of assumed that even if you didn't spot the provisional, then at some point between hitting the ball, and picking it out of the hole, you'd have realised. But thought that the nearer the hole it was, the more difficult it would be to convince your oppo or FP.