Rules question....

[Smiffy]

Your playing partner has stuffed his first drive into the trees.
He doesn't say anything but just pulls out another ball and tees it up.
As he is about to play his shot, you ask him "Is this a provisional?"
He just replies "Yes".
Is it a provisional? He hasn't "declared" it. You have.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Depends on if he's a mate or an acquaintance

 

[USER1999]

Since he said yes, it must be.

Better question is, is he a knob?

 

[Smiffy]

Depends on if he's a mate or an acquaintance

But my point is....he hasn't "declared it a provisional" as stated in the rules.
I get what you mean, but in the overall scheme of things, has he played to the rules????

 

[robemosc]

The way I pick that rule up is that the he should declare his intentions to play a provisional ball.

Maybe it's just how I read the rule.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

As murph said above, he said yes when you asked him if it was a provisional so I'd have to say that is the same as it being declared.

But if he was a knob and there was money on it then i'd maybe be more harsh

 

[MashieNiblick]

Depends entirely on the circumstances. The Rules say you have to inform your opponent or fellow competitor that you intend to play a provisional ball and Decision 27-2a/1 says "The player's statement must specifically mention the words “provisional ball” or must make it clear that he is proceeding under Rule 27-2a"

If it was a nice friendly game then I'd let it go. However if it was a tight match against someone who, for example, begrudged giving you your full h/cap allowance, then I'd pull them up.

 

[Ethan]

I think you have established his intention to play a provisional. Perhaps he only realised this was his intention after your prompt, but so be it.

 

[Twire]

Were you giving him advice asking if that was a provisional?

 

[Smiffy]

I think you have established his intention to play a provisional. Perhaps he only realised this was his intention after your prompt, but so be it.

But should it be MY job to establish his intention?
Not being pedantic, honest.
The rules say that he must state the word "provisional". "Yes" is not stating that.

 

[Fyldewhite]

If he's your partner in a 4BBB then I think it's fine and your opponents should accept that the intention to play a provisional is clear.

If he was an opponent in matchplay then I'd say nothing then say "....so that's you 3 to there then" after he's played. If you do say something then you may get the reply "of course it's not a provisional..... I would have said so if it was", you then feel you have spoken out of turn. It's his responsibility at the end of the day and everyone knows this rule.

If strokeplay it could consitute giving advice. Haven't time to look that up though.

 

[grumpyjock]

the rule states you must declair a provisonal, not a martin or reload or any other definition but PROVISIONAL BALL.
If not then he has declaired the first ball as lost and the ball becomes in play and 3 off the tee.

 

[Imurg]

The answer "yes" to your question containing the word "provisional" implies that the 2nd ball was a provo.
I'd have let him hit it and then pull him up. He wouldn't have liked it but that's life.

 

[bladeplayer]

I think you have established his intention to play a provisional. Perhaps he only realised this was his intention after your prompt, but so be it.

But should it be MY job to establish his intention?
Not being pedantic, honest.
The rules say that he must state the word "provisional". "Yes" is not stating that.

No it should not be YOUR job but YOU took it on yourself to become involved by asking didnt you? .. as asked.. were you technicaly offering advice?? the rules state you cant do that either ?? tough one tho because it becomes even more aquward if he finds the 1st ball & you then have to explain as he didnt declare provisional he took origional ball out of play...

 

[Ethan]

Capital letters do not reinforce an argument.

It is not your job to establish whether he wants to play a provisional, but once you have chosen to do so, you now know it is his intention. If you don't want to know, don't ask, then matey boy has played 3 off the tee.

Rule 27-2 says: The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

Decision 27/2a-1 says: Rule 27-2a specifically provides that the player must inform his opponent, marker or a fellow-competitor that he intends to play a provisional ball.
The player's statement must specifically mention the words “provisional ball” or must make it clear that he is proceeding under Rule 27-2a.

That rule does not say the player must prospectively declare "I am playing a provisional", rather that you must be informed that he does intend to do so. If you have asked "Are you playing a provisional?" and he says " Yes", then I think the reasonable person would consider that satisfies the intention to proceed under Rule 27/2.

The player may still be a stupid feckless muppet, but that isn't a specific breach of the Rules.

 

[bladeplayer]

It is not your job to establish whether he wants to play a provisional, but once you have chosen to do so, you now know it is his intention. If you don't want to know, don't ask, then matey boy has played 3 off the tee.



The player may still be a stupid feckless muppet, but that isn't a specific breach of the Rules.

but once you ask arent you offering advice & isnt that a breach of rules??

 

[Ethan]

It is not your job to establish whether he wants to play a provisional, but once you have chosen to do so, you now know it is his intention. If you don't want to know, don't ask, then matey boy has played 3 off the tee.



The player may still be a stupid feckless muppet, but that isn't a specific breach of the Rules.

but once you ask arent you offering advice & isnt that a breach of rules??

That is not advice.

 

[Twire]

It is not your job to establish whether he wants to play a provisional, but once you have chosen to do so, you now know it is his intention. If you don't want to know, don't ask, then matey boy has played 3 off the tee.



The player may still be a stupid feckless muppet, but that isn't a specific breach of the Rules.

but once you ask arent you offering advice & isnt that a breach of rules??

That is not advice.

In a roundabout way, your advising him to declare it a provisional.

 

[Smiffy]

Capital letters do not reinforce an argument.

I didn't realise we were having an ARGUMENT
I THOUGHT we were having a DISCUSSION

 

[Ethan]

Capital letters do not reinforce an argument.

I didn't realise we were having an ARGUMENT
I THOUGHT we were having a DISCUSSION

I meant argument in the sense of your argument i.e. the case you were making, rather than having an argument, i.e. a barney.