chris661
Money List Winner
Incorrect as it was a second ball.
Rules question
- Thread starter bobmac
- Start date
Incorrect as it was a second ball.
hovis
Tour Winner
this is what the pro was saying, its only a penalty on the second ball because the hole has been started
RGDave
Money List Winner
What I normally hear is some clever-arse muttering the word "one".....
Very droll.
rosecott
Money List Winner
No penalty - Decision 11-3/3
rosecott
Money List Winner
Rule 1 - never ever ask a pro a question about handicaps.
Rule 2 - Only ever ask a pro a question about rules if there is no-one else available.
cheezburga
Club Champion
Your pro is wrong I'm afraid.
There are two scenarios here. One is that you actually know the ball is out of bounds. In which case the ball is out of play - so your second ball off the tee isn't in play until you make a stroke at it. The other is that you only think the ball is out of bounds. In which case your second ball is only a provisional and a provisional ball isn't in play at the time of first hitting it - it only becomes the ball in play later (when you discover your original is actually out of bounds - or lost, or you've hit it beyond where you think lost etc etc).
So in neither case is the ball in play when it falls off the tee
cheezburga
Club Champion
However... having said that, there is in fact an exception. If you go back to the tee under "ball unplayable" rules, once you teed it up again (and you can!) it's in play - so if you knock it off the tee after (as per Bob's question) you've addressed it then there's a penalty. (If you knock it off while you are addressing it, then you're ok)
shagster
Head Pro
how can you knock a ball off on your back swing 
but i believe no penalty
shagster
but i believe no penalty
shagster
palindromicbob
Tour Winner
Definition of "Ball in play"
A ball is "in play" as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until it is holed, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted whether or not the substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play.
The ball is lifted under the unplayable rule as this is then taken back to the teeing ground it does not come back into play until a stroke is made at it. Had it been dropped under this rule then it is in play as soon as it has been dropped in accordance with the rules.
On another point as the stroke is the forward motion of the club then the back swing has no impact on the decision. Also if you "check" your downswing voluntarily it does not count as a stroke. So if you had just started the downswing and the ball fell off and you stopped the swing before the cub head reached the ball then you have not made a stroke.
Anyway the answer is the player may replace the ball on the tee without penalty as allowed under Rule 11-3.
bobmac
Major Champion
It seems to me that questions on the rules often attracts lots of attention.
I asked one of the most simple rules decisions there is...if the ball falls off the tee, is there a penalty?
The answer of course was a simple no.
And yet, the thread attracted over 300 views and almost 30 replies.
It's no wonder how wars start
I asked one of the most simple rules decisions there is...if the ball falls off the tee, is there a penalty?
The answer of course was a simple no.
And yet, the thread attracted over 300 views and almost 30 replies.
It's no wonder how wars start
Ethan
Money List Winner
In a recent Decision on the Rules, it is not a breach of the Rules or etiquette to batter any playing partner who says 'Two" as you address the ball after putting it back on the tee.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Also worth noting that if you make an air shot at the ball on the tee, the ball is then "in play" as you have made a stroke at it. If it then falls off the tee when you re-address it Rule 11-3 no longer applies and the ball must be replaced under penalty in accordance with Rule 18-2b. See Decision 11-3/1.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Mashie - we're Real Golfers
We don't make Air Shots.....
Do we..?
We don't make Air Shots.....
Do we..?
19thagain
Head Pro
OR
says "Good line..distance will come!"
RGDave
Money List Winner
Whoo-hoo, that's me sorted.
cheezburga
Club Champion
It seems to me that questions on the rules often attracts lots of attention.
I asked one of the most simple rules decisions there is...if the ball falls off the tee, is there a penalty?
The answer of course was a simple no.
And yet, the thread attracted over 300 views and almost 30 replies.
It's no wonder how wars start
I'll accept palindromicbob's comment about my views of the "unplayable" scenario (but under reservation). It certainly isn't a "simple no" since mashieniblick points out decision 11.3/1 which quite clearly shows a penalty for a ball falling of a tee in the teeing ground (Which is also why I have the suspicion about the unplayable thing, as there are situations when a ball on a tee in the teeing ground is in play)
bobmac
Major Champion
Ok, maybe I should have stated it was the first shot on the first hole before any other shots had been hit by anyone else in the group.
Not a 3 off the tee for OOB, not an unplayable, not a provisional........the golfers first shot of the hole. The ball is not yet in play. In fact, it's still warm as it's just come from the players pocket. And yes, he has marked the ball with his name and full address and postcode to distinguish it from the other players balls and it is a conforming ball. And his driver is not on the R&A's list of non conforming clubs and the tee is only 3 inches long and the ball is teed up correctly within the tee markers. And the player has filled in his competition card with all the correct information and swapped it with a fellow competitor in the group.
Not a 3 off the tee for OOB, not an unplayable, not a provisional........the golfers first shot of the hole. The ball is not yet in play. In fact, it's still warm as it's just come from the players pocket. And yes, he has marked the ball with his name and full address and postcode to distinguish it from the other players balls and it is a conforming ball. And his driver is not on the R&A's list of non conforming clubs and the tee is only 3 inches long and the ball is teed up correctly within the tee markers. And the player has filled in his competition card with all the correct information and swapped it with a fellow competitor in the group.
One Planer
Global Moderator
Ok, maybe I should have stated it was the first shot on the first hole before any other shots had been hit by anyone else in the group.
Not a 3 off the tee for OOB, not an unplayable, not a provisional........the golfers first shot of the hole. The ball is not yet in play. In fact, it's still warm as it's just come from the players pocket. And yes, he has marked the ball with his name and full address and postcode to distinguish it from the other players balls and it is a conforming ball. And his driver is not on the R&A's list of non conforming clubs and the tee is only 3 inches long and the ball is teed up correctly within the tee markers. And the player has filled in his competition card with all the correct information and swapped it with a fellow competitor in the group.
I hope he was suitably attired
Ethan
Money List Winner
Ok, maybe I should have stated it was the first shot on the first hole before any other shots had been hit by anyone else in the group.
Not a 3 off the tee for OOB, not an unplayable, not a provisional........the golfers first shot of the hole. The ball is not yet in play. In fact, it's still warm as it's just come from the players pocket. And yes, he has marked the ball with his name and full address and postcode to distinguish it from the other players balls and it is a conforming ball. And his driver is not on the R&A's list of non conforming clubs and the tee is only 3 inches long and the ball is teed up correctly within the tee markers. And the player has filled in his competition card with all the correct information and swapped it with a fellow competitor in the group.
And was he playing in his proper turn in strict accordance with the official draw?
chrisd
Major Champion
Ok, maybe I should have stated it was the first shot on the first hole before any other shots had been hit by anyone else in the group.
Not a 3 off the tee for OOB, not an unplayable, not a provisional........the golfers first shot of the hole. The ball is not yet in play. In fact, it's still warm as it's just come from the players pocket. And yes, he has marked the ball with his name and full address and postcode to distinguish it from the other players balls and it is a conforming ball. And his driver is not on the R&A's list of non conforming clubs and the tee is only 3 inches long and the ball is teed up correctly within the tee markers. And the player has filled in his competition card with all the correct information and swapped it with a fellow competitor in the group.
Ah .... but his is handicap active?
Chris
