Rule query

[richart]

Played in our Xmas comp (Turkey trot) today,which is basically a texas scramble.The course was covered in a dusting of snow about half inch thick. We were on temporary greens, and the group in front were clearing a path to the hole for every putt. It was as if they were using a tiny snow plough, although i imagine it was a putter. It made it easier for them to putt, but also made it harder for the groups behind as the snow was made into little banks, which we were trying to putt across.

Were they allowed to do this ? It certainly didn't seem to be in the spirit of the game. We did tell them when we caught them at the half way hut, but they didn't see anything wrong.

Must admit i haven't played in snow before, so my knowledge of the rules in this case are not great. It would seem that they must have been touching the line of their putts,and i assume that because we were on temporary greens it would not affect the rules ?

Clarification gratefully received.

 

[DCB]

No........


however since a texas scramble isn't covered by the rules.....

 

[rickg]

The rules are clear and confusing at the same time here in my opinion:

Snow & (and natural ice) can either be considered as a loose impediment or casual water whicherever you choose. You are not allowed to remove frost or dew.

So yes you can remove snow, or you can take relief from it.
How you do this is probably an area of contention. You can use your putter as long as you are not deemed to be testing the surface, or press something down.
Also you can use a cap, or a towel or any suitable object.

I have recently been using my "V Easy"© to "swish" ice and snow away from my line of putt.
My opinion is that I am not pressing anything down or scraping the surface, but others I play with have disagreed.

You are not allowed to remove frost or dew.

Another area of contention I have had is that I have removed ice that has formed when people tread on the frost and it forms clumps of ice on their shoes which is then deposited on the green. Again, I don't see anything wrong here, but others disagree with me.



I think its an area that will divide camps as some will agree with me and some will disagree.

It would be nice to clear it up.

Here is an extract for the rule for loose impediments. The following is permissable according to the R&A

16-1a/8 Loose Impediments Removed from Line of Putt with Cap or Towel

A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible?

Yes, provided he did not press anything down

16 /1a 10 - In removing loose impediments from his line of putt by brushing with a putter, a player brushed along the line for about one foot before brushing the impediments to the side. Did the player infringe Rule 16-1?

Under Rule 16-1a a player is allowed to brush aside loose impediments on his line of putt. The casual movement of the putter along the line of putt would not be a breach of the Rules unless in the process the player did something to the putting green which might influence the movement of his ball when played (Rule 1-2).

 

[richart]

Thanks for that Rick. The path for the ball was about a foot wide, and straight to the hole. Made lining up the putts much easier ! Also made it nearly impossible for anyone else to judge speed. Across the snow putts were slow and smooth, and across the smoothed parts they were quicker.

The rules may have been in their favour but it didn't seem in the spirit of the game. It also slowed the field up as we had to wait while they made the path.

Next time perhaps i should make a path just wide enough for the ball, so that it will run straight into the hole. Build the banks up so it can't leave the track.

 

[goldenbare]

Are these posts directly caused by the cabin fever that we are all experiencing at the moment?
Lets hope its not too long before sanity returns and only Smiffy and Bob hold intelligible conversations.

 

[chrisd]

I never quite get to understand the accusation of cheating where the wrongdoer is cleared of "cheating" under the rules so he is, apparently "cheating" under the "spirit of the game"

Look - if he isn't breaking the rules, then whatever he did was ok - OK! - you could do it, everyone could do it, it was ok!






Chris

 

[bobmac]

and only Smiffy and Bob hold intelligible conversations.

Sounds as if your drunker than I am

 

[richart]

I never quite get to understand the accusation of cheating where the wrongdoer is cleared of "cheating" under the rules so he is, apparently "cheating" under the "spirit of the game"

Look - if he isn't breaking the rules, then whatever he did was ok - OK! - you could do it, everyone could do it, it was ok!






Chris

Never mentioned cheating OK ! Just wanted to know the rule. Thanks for your constructive comment anyway

 

[chrisd]

Sorry Rich, I may have read more into the question than was intended, but, so often, people say here that they feel that the spirit of the game has been broken wih various different actions as if it's the same as breaking the rules. For example, the use of range finders, although on most courses they are allowed even in competitions, there are some who feel it is still wrong to use them.

I just, and possibly did it badly, wanted to make the point that if something is done on the course that isn't an infringement of the rules than its ok and everyone playing can do the same. In my opinion, the spirit of the game is, therefore, not an issue.

Matters regarding "spirit of the game" for me, arise with issues of gamesmanship where, say, a competitor make a noise on your backswing and you feel it was deliberate.

I hope that this clears up the matter, I meant no offence



Chris

 

[richart]

None taken Chris.

A lot of the players were annoyed by what was done, not just our group.The fact we had to wait while they did it in front of us on every hole in the freezing cold did not help ! The snow that was removed was banked up, which then made it an obstruction to the rest of the field. That is what we felt was not in the 'spirit of the game'. I have no problems with the rules, and have a good knowledge built up over a lot of years, but never having played in snow this was a new one on me.

 

[viscount17]

Played saturday and tried both methods. the snowplough is in my most dickensian of humble opinions not the greatest idea. it reveals every hump and hollow, mudball and borrow, I'm glad I was only four foot away to start with.
putted on the surface from thereon, 18 footer on 2, 12 ft on 3, 2 putt from 40 ft on 4 - who was this putting god!
3 putt from 10 ft on 5 - ah well.