Replaying ball if you put into bunker

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Rule 18.1 applies. You may at any time from anywhere on the course take stroke and distance relief.

…and ‘unplayable‘ is just one scenario under which a player might use the rule and S&D relief, but not an aspect of the rule itself. The ball need not be unplayable.

 

[YandaB]

I had a look at 19.3 and diagram I understand that rule, but I still don’t understand the following…… if I chip from the fringe of the green and ball goes through the green into a bunker I can take the ball out of bunker and replay the shot under a one shot penalty.

If I’m 5/10 yards behind a greenside bunker and play a poor shot into bunker one of the options is to take the ball outside bunker for a 2 shot penalty.

As I say there must be something simple I’m missing, why under these two examples are there a one shot penalty for one and a two shot penalty for the other.

It probably depends more on how you got there as to which option is chosen. Say you had driven it 300 yards into the bunker with a horrible lie and you were rubbish at bunkers shots too, you may choose the 2 shot penalty option (rather than the 1 shot option that takes you back to the tee). Should you have done it from 3 yards behind the bunker, you would likely take the one shot option.

 

[Rlburnside]

In both cases - no matter where your ball has ended up (including in a bunker) - one of the options is to play your next shot from where you played your previous stroke under penalty of stroke and distance.

In both cases - if your ball has ended up in the bunker - one of your options is to take back on the line relief outside the bunker for a two stroke penalty.

Ok let’s get this clear for the last time?

Your first paragraph … 1shot penalty under s/d

Second paragraph why would you take that option if it’s a 2 shot penalty?

 

[Foxholer]

I had a look at 19.3 and diagram I understand that rule, but I still don’t understand the following…… if I chip from the fringe of the green and ball goes through the green into a bunker I can take the ball out of bunker and replay the shot under a one shot penalty.

If I’m 5/10 yards behind a greenside bunker and play a poor shot into bunker one of the options is to take the ball outside bunker for a 2 shot penalty.

As I say there must be something simple I’m missing, why under these two examples are there a one shot penalty for one and a two shot penalty for the other.

I resolved that similar query by....
For a penalty of 1 shot, I could replay from previous spot and lie (however difficult it was - eg from under a bush) but for a penalty of 2 shots I could have a bit more freedom about where I could drop.

 

[rulefan]

In essence bol out of the bunker give an infinitive number of drop places (on the line of course), S&D only gives one fixed.

 

[Steven Rules]

Ok let’s get this clear for the last time?

Your first paragraph … 1shot penalty under s/d

Second paragraph why would you take that option if it’s a 2 shot penalty?

It is just an option. You don't have to do it and in this specific scenario you probably wouldn't.

The two-stroke-penalty-outside-the-bunker option was created in 2019 for those who find it difficult to get the ball out of a bunker or for those bunkers that are near 'impossible' to get out of.

Pre 2019, if you played a shot from in a bunker and it didn't come out, your only option was to play your next shot from in the bunker again - either play it as it lies, or S&D in the bunker, or other unplayable options in the bunker. If you are no good at getting out of bunkers then you might be hacking around in there until you dig your way to Australia.

The two stroke penalty back on the line option allows you to take your medicine and get out of the bunker (via a penalty drop) with a little bit of dignity.

 

[Foxholer]

In essence bol out of the bunker give an infinitive number of drop places (on the line of course), S&D only gives one fixed.

H'mm! I think you just invented a new meaning for 'infinitive'! But I'm happy to both learn something new, to me, and to understand what you mean. PS. I think 'infinite' would work.

 

[Rlburnside]

It is just an option. You don't have to do it and in this specific scenario you probably wouldn't.

The two-stroke-penalty-outside-the-bunker option was created in 2019 for those who find it difficult to get the ball out of a bunker or for those bunkers that are near 'impossible' to get out of.

Pre 2019, if you played a shot from in a bunker and it didn't come out, your only option was to play your next shot from in the bunker again - either play it as it lies, or S&D in the bunker, or other unplayable options in the bunker. If you are no good at getting out of bunkers then you might be hacking around in there until you dig your way to Australia.

The two stroke penalty back on the line option allows you to take your medicine and get out of the bunker (via a penalty drop) with a little bit of dignity.

Thanks, but it seems strange to me that in one instance you can take a ball out of a bunker and have a one shot penalty and yet another instance you would get a two shot penalty.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks, but it seems strange to me that in one instance you can take a ball out of a bunker and have a one shot penalty and yet another instance you would get a two shot penalty.

Why? In the second case you have a choice of selecting where you drop. In the first you have no choice.

 

[Rlburnside]

Why? In the second case you have a choice of selecting where you drop. In the first you have no choice.

If 18.1 applies in the first case do you not have more than ‘no choice’ to where to drop?

I still can’t get my head around this rule, in the example I first gave I could take my ball out of the bunker for a one shot penalty and replay the shot.

19.3 gives 4 options, and to drop out of bunker is a 2 shot penalty.

 

[Steven Rules]

If 18.1 applies in the first case do you not have more than ‘no choice’ to where to drop?

I still can’t get my head around this rule, in the example I first gave I could take my ball out of the bunker for a one shot penalty and replay the shot.

19.3 gives 4 options, and to drop out of bunker is a 2 shot penalty.

I sense - but I could be wrong - that you are overly fixated on the applicabilty of the stroke and distance option to your original bunker scenario as if the only time you can use stroke and distance is when your ball unhappily rolls into a bunker. In this instance you can get out (back to your prevous spot) for a one stroke penalty. As I say, I could be totally misunderstanding your misunderstanding.

Just to be clear - and maybe it is already clear to you - you can take a stroke and distance penalty at any time on the course, anywhere, after any stroke. There is no need for a bunker to be involved.

In this regard, your fixation with asking 'Why would I take a two stroke penalty to get out of a bunker, when I can get out with a one stroke penalty' is fair enough for your specific scenario. But you are comparing a rule designed for anywhere on the course with one specifically and solely relevant to bunkers. I have already explained the circumstances under which the two stroke penalty might be attactive.

Hypothetically, a player is in a tiny little pot bunker with steep, deep sides. The player thinks: 'I can get out of this' and has a go at doing just that but the ball doesn't come out. The player has another go, and the ball stays in the bunker again. The player suddenly realises that maybe he or she doesn't have the skills to get out of this bunker.

Q. Assuming there is no two stroke back on the line outside the bunker option, what can the player do next? A. Nothing except keep trying to hit the ball out of the bunker.....or take a DQ.

Edit. In this scenario the ability to get out of the bunker for a two stroke penalty gets the player out of a big mess and a big hole - literally. In your scenario, the two stroke option is not needed.

 

[Colin L]

. .....Assuming there is no two stroke back on the line outside the bunker option, what can the player do next? A. Nothing except keep trying to hit the ball out of the bunker.....or take a DQ........

..... or light up a Hamlet.

 

[rulefan]

H'mm! I think you just invented a new meaning for 'infinitive'! But I'm happy to both learn something new, to me, and to understand what you mean. PS. I think 'infinite' would work.

A line is made of a set of points which is extended in opposite directions. There are an infinite number of points comprising that line.

 

[rulefan]

..... or light up a Hamlet.

 

[Foxholer]

A line is made of a set of points which is extended in opposite directions. There are an infinite number of points comprising that line.

Agreed (-ish). But irrelevant wrt 'infinitive' - except that you can split either/both.

 

[rulefan]

Agreed (-ish).

Which of my two sentences do you disagree(ish) with?

 

[Foxholer]

Which of my two sentences do you disagree(ish) with?

The first. Lines can be curved, so not necessarily 'opposite directions'.

 

[rulefan]

The first. Lines can be curved, so not necessarily 'opposite directions'.

If one thing is opposite another, it is on the other side of a space from it.

 

[Foxholer]

If one thing is opposite another, it is on the other side of a space from it.

True enough. But you stated '(opposite) direction'!

 

[Rlburnside]

It probably depends more on how you got there as to which option is chosen. Say you had driven it 300 yards into the bunker with a horrible lie and you were rubbish at bunkers shots too, you may choose the 2 shot penalty option (rather than the 1 shot option that takes you back to the tee). Should you have done it from 3 yards behind the bunker, you would likely take the one shot option.

You would still have to drop in a bunker to get the one shot penalty option