Colin L
Tour Winner
Deleted
repairing pitch marks on the line of your putt
- Thread starter louise_a
- Start date
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I agree - same for everyone - pain in the backside when these sorts of things happen. Don't misunderstand - I didn't mean to be going on. I was just seeking clarification on the situation in respect of pitch marks on the fringe of the green. Anyway thanks for your guidance.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
that's fine - sometimes on forums anything repeated takes on the look of a billboard!
a pro once suggested that the actual solution to avoiding this particular risk was not to be short - easier said than done but we know what he meant.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
indeed - like I got an axe to grind.
Bit folk complaining about state of bunkers - well just don't go in them. Ah well...
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Interesting one about divots on the line of play on the fringe or fairway. You can't replace them but you can remove them providing they are unreplaced.
Always worth referring to the relevant Rule which in this case is 13-2 - Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play, which says
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
- the position or lie of his ball,
- the area of his intended stance or swing,
- his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
- the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
- pressing a club on the ground,
- moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
- creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
- removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
- removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
- in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
- in fairly taking his stance,
- in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
- in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
- on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
- in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
- in fairly taking his stance,
- in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
- in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
- on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
So in relation to divots you can't replace a loose divot, or press down or move a replaced one, if it would improve your lie or area of stance or swing or line of play, as that would be eliminating an irregularity of surface (Decision 13-2/6 Replacing Divot in Divot Hole on Line of Play).
A divot is considered replaced when "When substantially all of it, with the roots downwards, lies in a divot hole. The hole need not be the one from which the divot was extracted." (Decision 13-2/7 When Divot Replaced)
A loose divot (i.e. one that hasn't been replaced) can however be moved as it is a loose impediment but only if it is completely detached otherwise you have to leave it (Decision 13-2/5 Replacing or Removing Undetached Divot):
"A divot which is not completely detached is not a loose impediment. It is something fixed and therefore its removal or replacement would be a breach of Rule 13-2 as the lie and area of intended swing would be improved."
Full text of decsions is here
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=A9E1C0C1-A442-4277-8EF3-CE0B9D5BCD37
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
XLNT - thankyou. One further clarification then, in...
does the damage in 'or in repairing damage' include pitch marks?
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
pitch marks or old holes - nothing else.
I may even have suggested that the large deer hoof print cut into the green just ahead of my ball last week was 'unfair' - but only under my breath! I then spent a few minutes repairing the area before we left the green so that other's weren't affected in the same way.
williamalex1
Money List Winner
if i play a shot onto a green and my ball spins back OFF the said green leaving a pitch mark- which is now on my intended line of putt. i am not allowed to repair the pitch mark that i have just made. because my ball is now off the green. its a hard old game, i think thats correct but sad
Colin L
Tour Winner
That's incorrect, so you can be happy! You can repair pitch marks on the green wherever your ball might be. (Rule 16-1c)
williamalex1
Money List Winner
thanks im happy now you live and learn.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Another misconception others have tried to do me on i.e. 'you can't repair pitch marks if you are off the green'
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Now I was playing a friendly roll-up three ball on Saturday. Par 3. One of my companions (#1) missed green to the right. Whilst waiting for our other companion (#2) to chip on (he short of green and to play first) #1 noticed a very obvious pitch mark (not his as he didn't pitch the green). Cursing the player who made it and didn't fix it #1 walked onto green a repaired the pitch mark. After we'd all played out #2 (v experienced player) told #1 that he had broken rules and in a comp would have been pulled-up and penalised.
Rationale - #1 was off the green and he couldn't repair a pitch mark on the green as in doing so #1 would be 'testing the surface'. When I questioned #2 about this he was adamant that he was correct - in that #1 should have been pulled-up and penalised.
So given the discussions on this thread was #2 correct in what he said? I'm confused again.
Rationale - #1 was off the green and he couldn't repair a pitch mark on the green as in doing so #1 would be 'testing the surface'. When I questioned #2 about this he was adamant that he was correct - in that #1 should have been pulled-up and penalised.
So given the discussions on this thread was #2 correct in what he said? I'm confused again.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Love it when people give a 'rationale' - makes them sound so right doesn't it!
He's wrong.
Rationale - there's nothing in the rules to prohibit you testing the surface of the green in this way. the relevant rule is very specific about how you can't test the green, not that you can't garner information in other ways.
d. Testing Surface
During the stipulated round, a player must not test the surface of any putting green by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Nope he was wrong .. no need for any confusion its ok to repair pitch mark on the putting surface at any time.. testing the surface would be running his hand along the grass , two very different actions
Colin C post #29 gives you reference to rule 16-1c , next time you see golfer #2 alert him to this
EDIT ... or as Duncan said .. apologies was replying at same time
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Thanks guys - just went and read 16-1c and yes - very clear and my buddy was indeed wrong. I shall mention this to him - also mention it to the guy he would have pulled up so that they don't spread further this misunderstanding.
