IanMcC
Well-known member
Is there any instance now where you need (or are advised) to use the club you intend to swing with when taking relief, or is it always longest club in the bag, except putter?
Relief using longest club except putter, or the club you are going to use?
- Thread starter IanMcC
- Start date
Traminator
Well-known member
For measuring?
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I always thought you determined relief with the club you're going to use and measure relief with any club - but its a almost always the driver..
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
It is a two stage process
Stage I
Nearest Point of Complete Relief
The reference point for taking free relief from an abnormal course condition (Rule 16.1), dangerous animal condition (Rule 16.2), wrong green (Rule 13.1f) or no play zone (Rules 16.1f and 17.1e), or in taking relief under certain Local Rules.
It is the estimated point where the ball would lie that is:
• Nearest to the ball’s original spot, but not nearer the hole than that spot,
• In the required area of the course, and
• Where the condition does not interfere with the stroke the player would have made from the original spot if the condition was not there.
New Rules of Golf for 2019 – Updated June 2018
146
Estimating this reference point requires the player to identify the choice of club, stance, swing and line of play he or she would have used for that stroke.
Stage 2
'define' the area of relief with reference to the nearest point of relief. It is at this stage a player may use the longest club in their bag or carried (other than a putter).
IanMcC
Well-known member
That was my belief, but someone at my club insisted that the measuring is done with the club you intend to use also. I was 90% sure he was wrong, but just wanted confirmation.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
See post #4
Old Skier
Tour Winner
https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-17#17-1d I believe you’ll find it’s the longest club in the bag excluding putter.
rulefan
Tour Winner
I believe Traminator meant
Club-Length/1 – Meaning of “Club-Length” When Measuring
For the purposes of measuring when determining a relief area, the length of the entire club, starting at the toe of the club and ending at the butt end of the grip is used. However, if the club has a headcover on it or has an attachment to the end of the grip, neither is allowed to be used as part of the club when using it to measure.
bobmac
Major Champion
If anyone tells you any rule that you think is wrong, give them a rule book (if one is handy) and ask them to show you the ruling.
In this instance, your mate was partly right.
The club you intend to use is used to establish the nearest point of relief.
Then you switch to the driver to measure the one clublength.
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
And while they are doing that, might I recommend phoning your wife to advise her that you might be two hours late home.......
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I know you said if one is handy but I'm always thrown when this quote comes up. Surely in this case (& all the others) neither party were able to point to the correct rule in a rule book/app. That's the whole point of why the question remained unresolved in realtime
So isn't it better for the player that's correct to point to the rule that confirms his belief, which must be far far quicker than the player who's wrong looking for a rule that doesn't exist
(unless the goal is to educate through the 'punishment exercise' of needlessly looking for something that doesn't exist but then that seems like a messed up style of education/learning
)
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
The point is its just quickest to the draw isn't it? Both believed they were right (the guy who's wrong could just as easily read this thread and next time hand the rule book to the other guy and say the same dam thing, the advice itself is flawed)
Old Skier
Tour Winner
And they might learn something while they are looking.
bobmac
Major Champion
If someone tries to pull me up on a rule and I know he is wrong, he has the burden of proof as he is the one making the claim.
What would you say if someone told you you were only allowed to carry 13 clubs and tried to penalise you?
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
You're right in that scenario of course.... But that's not what happened here is it?
You've changed it from 'think they're wrong ' to 'know they're wrong'
Both believed they were right but the OP didn't have the kind of certainty required for your advice... or he wouldn't have needed to post it here, would he?
Your advice is sound only when a player has 100% certainty otherwise the 'I'll teach him' purpose of handing him a rule book can easily backfire
Traminator
Well-known member
In the specific scenario in this thread, it is 100% up to the person challenging.
It is KNOWN that the driver is used for measuring, but the player challenging said there is an extra rule.
It is not for the player who disagrees to thumb through the book trying to find something that doesn't exist, it is for the challenger to try and find it.
In another scenario, last year I hit my ball in a narrow lateral ditch, and when I dropped back in line with the pin I was on the other side of the ditch.
My opponent said "you can't drop on the other side" (he was confusing the fact that the 2 club lengths on the opposite margin has been withdrawn unless under local/tournament rule). In that situation I got the book out and showed him the diagram with the options written in black and white.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
So why do we not give advice to suggest both players get round the rule book like a couple of adults to resolve the mistake rather than the obvious petulant action of handing over rule books with a 'show me' / 'I'll teach him' attitude?
If someone handed me a rule book with that quote I'd be inclined to concede the point even if I was right.
He might even deserve his 'lesson' but that hardly means I need to lower myself to behave in that manner
We need to remember the OP was not 100% certain
bobmac
Major Champion
If the guy politely suggested I was wrong, then I might show him the rule but if he insisted I was wrong I would ask him to prove it
Traminator
Well-known member
The only thing "petulant" is the actions and way of thinking you describe. If you say there's an extra rule and someone says "prove it", it would be very childish to not bother looking just to prove some point.
And your final sentence, again.... It is KNOWN that we can measure with a driver. The challenger is saying that there's an EXTRA rule limiting this. Prove it then ?
. That is not the same as both players being unsure as to what club can be used for measuring.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
In a stroke play comp there are only 3 types of people who can penalise you
Yourself
A referee
One of the committee
Your fellow competitor can report the incident to the committee but does not have the authority to penalise you.
